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A former member
there had an evening with Alf Garnett few years back.
MH
I used to love till death us do part when i was a kid. He was the 70's Victor Meldrew. As i got older and watched repeats and understood the jokes i took a dislike to it.
Rising Damp and Steptoe and son would raise a few eyebrows today.
Rising Damp and Steptoe and son would raise a few eyebrows today.
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I always found it amusing that Vince Powell (Love Thy Neighbour) was dismissed as creating a "racist" and "politically incorrect" comedy, whereas Johnny Speight is lauded as a genius for coming up with the "daring" Alf Garnett.
Riiiiiight. This is the same Speight that had Spike Milligan paint his face with boot polish and portray a character called "Paki Paddy".
Funny how double standards go isn't it?
A former member
lewsnews posted:
I was quite suprised to see that not too long ago they had an Alf Garnett movie on which was quite interesting (and funny)...
I always found it amusing that Vince Powell (Love Thy Neighbour) was dismissed as creating a "racist" and "politically incorrect" comedy, whereas Johnny Speight is lauded as a genius for coming up with the "daring" Alf Garnett.
Riiiiiight. This is the same Speight that had Spike Milligan paint his face with boot polish and portray a character called "Paki Paddy".
Funny how double standards go isn't it?
DB
An old Love Thy Neighbour episode:
Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uWKbbnCp-Rc
Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pRkpZQ54DnI
Part 3: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ch1sB4NueQo
Part 4: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7p_8qQQnkBA
Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uWKbbnCp-Rc
Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pRkpZQ54DnI
Part 3: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ch1sB4NueQo
Part 4: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7p_8qQQnkBA
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A former member
first clip is funny
Actually I watch al of it and you can take the Racist out, Its still a good comedy
Actually I watch al of it and you can take the Racist out, Its still a good comedy
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A former member
I don't think it was particularly racist. I'm sure that for every white bigotted idiot who sympathised with Eddie, there was a black bigotted idiot who sympathised with Bill. The banter was evenly matched, and Eddie usually got his comeuppance in the end. It wasn't subtle, but I never saw the harm in it, and still don't. The humour was as much based on Labour vs Tory as anything else, and you could almost have had two white blokes living next door to each other and the humour could still be made to work. The racism was fairly incidental in most cases. This is not to say that I find the programme all that funny -- like most ITV comedies, it was often very weak -- but it wasn't the evil scourge some make it out to be.
Spike Milligan pretending to be a "Paki", on the other hand, complete with Gunga-Din etc etc references, was far more offensive -- and he, and some other similar characters appeared on Till Death...
Spike Milligan pretending to be a "Paki", on the other hand, complete with Gunga-Din etc etc references, was far more offensive -- and he, and some other similar characters appeared on Till Death...
TV
The whole issue of racist expressions in archive TV is an interesting one. I personally cannot justify re-editing classic sitcoms to suit modern sensitivities - not only is that artistically disrepectful to the programme but it also hides the fact this was how people behaved at the time. There's no reason why a pre-programme announcement can't warn people the following programme contains expressions "you may find offensive". Rebroadcasting an old sitcom in its original form does not mean the use of certain words is condoned.
Grange Hill Series 1 is shortly due for DVD release and several fans have expressed concern ep 9 will be edited because Trisha and Benny use the terms "nig-nog" and "honky" in a scene where they talk about the problems which have caused them to bunk off. I think the solution would be simple - before the episode starts, broadcast a text caption (maybe even with spoken announcement) worded as follows:
"The following programme was first shown in 1978. It contains a racially perjorative term, which, while in common use at the time, is widely recognised as unacceptable now. BBC Worldwide apologises in advance for any offence this may cause."
Grange Hill Series 1 is shortly due for DVD release and several fans have expressed concern ep 9 will be edited because Trisha and Benny use the terms "nig-nog" and "honky" in a scene where they talk about the problems which have caused them to bunk off. I think the solution would be simple - before the episode starts, broadcast a text caption (maybe even with spoken announcement) worded as follows:
"The following programme was first shown in 1978. It contains a racially perjorative term, which, while in common use at the time, is widely recognised as unacceptable now. BBC Worldwide apologises in advance for any offence this may cause."
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A former member
It's in common usage now as well (or at least equivalents are) -- and was just as offensive in the '70s as it is now. Anyone who says different is a liar, or wasn't around then.
Companies just don't like the negative publicity, 'sall.
Companies just don't like the negative publicity, 'sall.
PT
Well I don't think it would be spoken as with DVDs/videos all messages - copyrights,warnings tend to be text captions.
tvarksouthwest posted:
I think the solution would be simple - before the episode starts, broadcast a text caption (maybe even with spoken announcement) worded as follows:
"The following programme was first shown in 1978. It contains a racially perjorative term, which, while in common use at the time, is widely recognised as unacceptable now. BBC Worldwide apologises in advance for any offence this may cause."
"The following programme was first shown in 1978. It contains a racially perjorative term, which, while in common use at the time, is widely recognised as unacceptable now. BBC Worldwide apologises in advance for any offence this may cause."
Well I don't think it would be spoken as with DVDs/videos all messages - copyrights,warnings tend to be text captions.
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A former member
Use of equivalents to words like "nignog" and "honky".
Use of such phrases was no more acceptable in polite society in 1978 than they are now. People have simply become more sensitive of the feelings of others.
Use of such phrases was no more acceptable in polite society in 1978 than they are now. People have simply become more sensitive of the feelings of others.
TV
Love Thy Neighbour had only been out of production for two years in 1978, so the show's catchphrases would still have been in mainstream "popular" (for want of a better word) culture. Just as Little Britain's many catchphrases are now. In the case of GH, both characters use the terms affectionately after Benny tells Trisha about his racist bullying at the hands of Doyle.