The World Cup 2006

Very elegant. Very elegant. You should be proud. Your ability to express yourself with class and incisiveness is growing with each post. Do you get detention when you talk like that to your teachers?

In my experience of football, local rivalries are only at their most intense ever when the two clubs play each other.

I should know - I am a Geordie.

In common with most Geordies, I want Newcastle United to do much better than either Sunderland or Middlesbrough. However, ask virtually every Geordie and they will tell you that they don't like the fact that Sunderland went down.

Why? Rivalries is too strong a word for it - as tvmercia said, it's just a desire to want to be the best in the region. Having your local rivals in the same league is brilliant and I hope Sunderland get back up straight away.

Perhaps that sort of friendly and good-natured rivalry requires a maturity and people who support whoever England are playing haven't matured yet. Who knows?

The name Rooney springs to mind for some reason......

Although I would agree with you about Rooney in general, surely you can see that supporting whoever England is playing because you are not English is ever so slightly different from wanting the team you are playing against in a World Cup quarter-final clash to lose?

Chalk, cheese, anybody?

It might be for this very reason we didn't stand a chance. The pressure to perform must have been unbearable for those involved and the press in particular need to take stock over the next two years. Who'd have wanted to be Theo Walcott, with such a weight on his shoulders?

Self-pity? Exactly. It's only a game.

ITV used a Johnny Cash song , very haunting and beautiful and unlike england had some class.

<see if i can find the song's title >

edit : the song title was Hurt

As you know, it's rare I agree with you, Simon, but you have it spot on.

Poor Theo. His hopes all raised and then Sven had no confidence in him.

I know it's only a game and not life or death, but that's part of the fun.

I was happy with the behaviour of our fans over there. Dare I say it but I think the Scottish taught us how to behave abroad?

I notice you only returned to this post which is now three pages old ("growing with each post" indeed) after being owned in the rest of the debate...

What is with your condescending attitude? Did I ever say I support teams that play against England? No. There are many Scots who do, but that's their decision, and why question it? To expect me to support a foreign football team just because it happens to be yours is rather arrogant, particularly when England has so many rivalries of its own.

[quote="All New Johnnyboy"]

As a Geordie, if Manchester United played in Europe you wouldn't be supporting them despite the fact that they're English.

Some Scottish people go over the score, but for many who don't support England, it's just football rivalries.

Shouldn't this be on The Lounge anyway? I've explained what I reckon on the other site if anyone cares that much.

Being owned in the rest of the debate? Is that some sort of expression suggesting that you think your arguments (backed up with mature expressions like "arrogant tosser") were beating mine earlier?

That's an interesting twist on reality, son.



Perhaps you missed my and tvmercia's posts earlier about the real nature of most football rivalries. For most football fans (whether in England or Scotland), we want our own team to win and to finish ahead of our rivals, but we want them to play in the same leagues and tournaments as us. Rivalries are light-hearted competitions between different regions and areas.

For example, I would love Scotland to have qualified for the last two World Cups and Euro 2004. It adds a bit of spice to the whole thing, plus Scottish supporters give any tournament an edge with their friendliness and sense of fun.

I think I am right when I say Scotland won the "Friendliest Fans in the World" competition in France 98.

The only time I and 99% of other England supporters would want Scotland to lose is if they were playing against us.

Surely after this point has been expressed numerous times now, you finally kappisch?

How can you call England a foreign nation when we have the same Prime Minister, the same Head of State, the same Armed Forces, most of the same laws, etc etc etc? Scotland and England are nations within a united group of nations.

You only think my attitude is condescending because I am speaking as I find.

I'm not sure why you think that, p_c_u_k.

Most English people I know will support an English team in European competitions, even if it sticks in our throats a little bit the next season.

I was chuffed when Man U won in 1999 and Liverpool in 2005. I'd rather it come back to England than go anywhere else. I am English.

When Celtic or Rangers play in Europe, I hope they win too. I am completely honest when I say this but I have never heard (or can't remember hearing) an English fan wanting an English team to lose in Europe.

I was really hoping Boro would win the UEFA Cup this year, even though they would have lorded it over us for ever. When Sunderland played in the FA Cup Final in 1992, I and most other Geordies I knew wanted it to come back to the North East.

The only time I can remember it being an issue was when Arsenal played in the Champions League final this year. Tottenham fans wanted the opposing team to win because, if Arsenal had won, they wouldn't have got into the qualifying round for the Champions League next season. There, the reason for wanting someone else to win was to do with self-interest and not necessarily rivalry.

Either I speak with real people in the real world about this and hear these views, or I am living in a little "Johnnyboy bubble world".



I reckon you're right, but it seems to have picked up momentum on this forum for some reason.

Well I think you are totally wrong, most football fans do not think like this. For instance, have you reac pcuk's post directly above yours?

Once again you are bringing politics in it when politics has nothing to do with it. The vital thing that you missed out in your little list of things that England and Scotland share is the fact that their football associations are still separate, as they always have been, and they field separate teams in international competitions. As such, in the context of football , England is a foreign nation.

Edit: Oh, and if you weren't losing the debate, how come you resorted to digging up a three-page old post in an attempt to drag the debate back in your favour with a holier-than-thou comment about a wee sweary word?

I like the rivalry between Scotland and England in sport. It adds a bit of spice and is quite funny sometimes. It's a shame Scotland didn't qualify and England went out - makes it boring. France '98 was great when both teams qualified.

I hate when the debate turns to politics and devolution etc. It just loses all the excitement and turns it into some sort of war. I agree about the West Lothian Question (lets not go there!) and how Scottish MPs shouldn't vote on English issues. I don't know why that wasn't made an automatic law when Scotland became partially independent.

I support the English team in football and it's a real bugger they went out. I hate the English media though - taken too far and I think that is what causes the most friction between two of the home nations.

And to make sure this post is connected with TV presentation, I'm loving BBC Sport's graphics. Shame ITV didn't make much of an effort.