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Winter Hill in danger as fires merge and close in

Serves entities North West region (June 2018)

RI
Richard Granada North West Today
Is there a back-up situation in place, or will the North West have no tv and some radio stations for a few days while a temporary tx is installed?


The Manchester and Merseyside areas are swamped by signals from Moel y Parc in north Wales, so much so that during Freeview scans, its channels often grab primary EPG positions. If Winter Hill does fail, many will probably receive a usable service from MyP off the back of their aerials


Certainly it’s easier in Merseyside to pick up signals from Moel-Y-Parc than it is Manchester. When DSO happened there were reports that Moel-Y-Parc signals were being picked up as far north as Blackpool.

A BBC News article yesterday implied that Radio was more at risk than TV should the fire had spread.


Not where I live in Sefton. Moel-Y-Parc can be received, usually with a good signal, but Winter Hill is stronger.

Storeton on the Wirral (which carries English and Welsh services) is also good although it is a different aerial group from Winter Hill and Moel-Y-Parc.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today

The Manchester and Merseyside areas are swamped by signals from Moel y Parc in north Wales, so much so that during Freeview scans, its channels often grab primary EPG positions. If Winter Hill does fail, many will probably receive a usable service from MyP off the back of their aerials


Certainly it’s easier in Merseyside to pick up signals from Moel-Y-Parc than it is Manchester. When DSO happened there were reports that Moel-Y-Parc signals were being picked up as far north as Blackpool.

A BBC News article yesterday implied that Radio was more at risk than TV should the fire had spread.


Not where I live in Sefton. Moel-Y-Parc can be received, usually with a good signal, but Winter Hill is stronger.

Storeton on the Wirral (which carries English and Welsh services) is also good although it is a different aerial group from Winter Hill and Moel-Y-Parc.


Storeton is vertical polz, WH and MyP are hoz, but the point is DTT receivers are pretty sensitive, so the aerial and its parameters are not as important as they were in the analogue days. The 700 MHz reorg is relying on that with the frequency changes that are in progress at present. It’s a huge calculated bodge, that must have the frequency planners from the 60s spinning in their graves !
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Radio Lancashire is on WH, and it is a reasonably important relay of Holme Moss for radio.

?


The national radio services from WH are only to provide coverage to a small area north of the site, similar for Radio Lancs, and in both cases usable signals are available from elsewhere in the affected area
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Steve in Pudsey Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Now I look again at the coverage maps, I hadn't realised that the overlaps with other TX sites was so big for Radio Lancs, I haven't seen that detail on other coverage maps

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Write that down in your copybook now.
ST
Stuart Recently warned West Country (West) Spotlight
It even got a mention during the weather forecast on Marr this morning . . .

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RK
Rkolsen World News
Arqiva’s tweet says it’s looking safe.





That tweet's been posted 3 times now...

It never appeared for me and I think it’s been merged.
Don’t let anyone treat you like you’re a VO/SOT when you’re a PKG.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Now I look again at the coverage maps, I hadn't realised that the overlaps with other TX sites was so big for Radio Lancs, I haven't seen that detail on other coverage maps


Winter Hill national FM is there as a 'broad-brush' fill in. The area is still served well by Holme Moss

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Here's Moel-y-Parc's gross DTT coverage

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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
DE
DE88 UTV Newsline
Winter Hill national FM is there as a 'broad-brush' fill in. The area is still served well by Holme Moss

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<RANDOM-OBSERVATION>

This must be an old map - the counties of Humberside and Cleveland were abolished over 20 years ago.

</RANDOM-OBSERVATION>

Wink Wink
"What is two plus two?" "Rather more than three." "Yes, but can you be more specific?" "The Belgians."
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
DE88 posted:
Winter Hill national FM is there as a 'broad-brush' fill in. The area is still served well by Holme Moss

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<RANDOM-OBSERVATION>

This must be an old map - the counties of Humberside and Cleveland were abolished over 20 years ago.

</RANDOM-OBSERVATION>

Wink Wink


It is an old map, but I don't think the height of hills and mountains have altered significantly in that time Cool
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Arqiva’s tweet says it’s looking safe.


Sky Radio News said at 14:00hrs the mast is at risk again (Broadcasters are often inaccurate about matters concerning their own industry though, so who really knows !)
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Well it'll be at risk until the fire is out completely.
Turns out nobody had 2020 vision.
OV
Orry Verducci Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
The Manchester and Merseyside areas are swamped by signals from Moel y Parc in north Wales, so much so that during Freeview scans, its channels often grab primary EPG positions. If Winter Hill does fail, many will probably receive a usable service from MyP off the back of their aerials


Not neccessarily, for most of Manchester Moel y Parc is in the totally opposite direction to Winter Hill, putting it in the direction TV aerials are designed to reject. Until recently I lived in the Salford Quays area for a few years, and my TV would barely register a signal from Moel y Parc. Usually it would pick up that a couple of muxes existed, but would struggle to decode anything more than service names, and would put them in the 800's in a barely usable state. It was only on rare occasions where there were lift conditions that the services became watchable.

Not sure why they said that. National FM radio services, and BBC Radio Manchester come from Holme Moss, and Key 103 is from Saddleworth. DAB services are present from a multitude of other sites, and quite honestly the other radio services from Winter Hill are candy floss stuff


Heart, Smooth and Rock FM come from only Winter Hill, so they would have been affected, and they are major services with high listenership. Although the DAB services do have other sites, especially from City Tower in Manchester, a large part of the area is served by only Winter Hill so it would have had quite an affect.

Although the impact on BBC national radio would have been limited, as Holme Moss and other sites further north would have still been in action, reception can be patch in many areas, including in Manchester itself. I know I always had better coverage on Winter Hill's frequency rather than Holme Moss's, which was affected by the terrain and multipath from the buildings. It also wouldn't surprise me if Winter Hill formed part of the microwave distribution network, so an issue there has the potential to affect services further north.

As you say the Manchester local services would have been unaffected as they come from City Tower, or in Hits Radio's (new name for Key 103) case, Saddleworth.

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