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Split from The Sport Thread (June 2015)

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DV
dvboy
I think that's right although there is a very close collaboration for example Andrew Castle mentioned a camera man during a match yesterday and they showed a shot of him, and then he smiled at a joke Andrew made so they can react to the BBC commentary, or maybe the BBC have a few extra cameras on some courts?
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member
Here we are 1985, lovely non sync cuts at 1:58, 2:54, 3:39, 3:48, 4:19 and 5:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZH2DquLKs


Whenever I see other videos like these (such as a handover from Thames to LWT on a Friday or the handover at midnight 1993 from Thames to Carlton or even from TV-AM to the regions), comments say the effect wouldn't be seen on broadcast as TV sets were more tolerant, and VHS recordings exacerbate the effect of the non-sync cuts. How true that is I don't know.
MA
Markymark
Here we are 1985, lovely non sync cuts at 1:58, 2:54, 3:39, 3:48, 4:19 and 5:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZH2DquLKs


Whenever I see other videos like these (such as a handover from Thames to LWT on a Friday or the handover at midnight 1993 from Thames to Carlton or even from TV-AM to the regions), comments say the effect wouldn't be seen on broadcast as TV sets were more tolerant, and VHS recordings exacerbate the effect of the non-sync cuts. How true that is I don't know.



It's very true !!! No VTR liked to have disturbance on the sync pulses, as the mechanical servos used them as a timing reference. It was far less noticeable 'live', though as a youngster I could often hear the TV's line output transformer 'chirp' as it missed a beat when there was a non sync cut.

Professional VTRs didn't even like the sync timing to drift, which was a problem in the 70s, before synchronisers. When an ITV company was about to cut to the network feed, they'd bring themselves
in sync by adding or subtracting a line on their station sync pulse generator in the 5 to 10 seconds leading up to the cut. All the viewer at home would see, would be the picture twitching slightly vertically, but any VTR in the building that was running would go bananas. That's why back then, something camera sourced was used during those seconds, station clock, static caption, or in vision announcer. Certainly no 'stings' off VT !!!

You can see the effect here, the moment the clock appears, Southern start syncing themselves with ITN, the VHS goes crazy, but recovers in time to see that they are able to perform a fast cross fade to ITN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMYy5kB1oQ
Last edited by Markymark on 30 June 2015 4:18pm - 2 times in total
BL
bluecortina
Here we are 1985, lovely non sync cuts at 1:58, 2:54, 3:39, 3:48, 4:19 and 5:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZH2DquLKs


Whenever I see other videos like these (such as a handover from Thames to LWT on a Friday or the handover at midnight 1993 from Thames to Carlton or even from TV-AM to the regions), comments say the effect wouldn't be seen on broadcast as TV sets were more tolerant, and VHS recordings exacerbate the effect of the non-sync cuts. How true that is I don't know.



It's very true !!! No VTR liked to have disturbance on the sync pulses, as the mechanical servos used them as a timing reference. It was far less noticeable 'live', though as a youngster I could often hear the TV's line output transformer 'chirp' as it missed a beat when there was a non sync cut.

Professional VTRs didn't even like the sync timing to drift, which was a problem in the 70s, before synchronisers. When an ITV company was about to cut to the network feed, they'd bring themselves
in sync by adding or subtracting a line on their station sync pulse generator in the 5 to 10 seconds leading up to the cut. All the viewer at home would see, would be the picture twitching slightly vertically, but any VTR in the building that was running would go bananas. That's why back then, something camera sourced was used during those seconds, station clock, static caption, or in vision announcer. Certainly no 'stings' off VT !!!

You can see the effect here, the moment the clock appears, Southern start syncing themselves with ITN, the VHS goes crazy, but recovers in time to see that they are able to perform a fast cross fade to ITN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMYy5kB1oQ


Very Slowly drifting syncs would be ok on a later generation quad for example, but nothing as fast moving as a genlock sequence! It was also absolutely critical to maintain the sync to subcarrier relationship at all times, otherwise you'd be in very serious trouble on playback of a tape that had that relationship altered during recording. Genlock would ruin all of that of course.

There's a very similar clip on yt of almost exactly the same sequence as you pointed to but in that case as the southern ident is coming off the acr someone in mcr is locking pres to itn. There is a very characteristic 'wibble wobble' of the picture edges! Naughty boy. I cant readily find it now.

That's also the reason why a modern studio centre would have multiple pulse chains for internal use. Typically a pulse chain for presentation/tx purposes and one for each studio. Likely also to have some standalone stable sync sources for edit suites etc. A 525 pulse chain if you worked in a big station that had standards converters.
DV
dvboy
Heard a fuzzy noise, and then the picture was sorted.

Also good to see one veteran commentating on another veteran; Barry Davies commentating on Leyton Hewitt.


Just had the same kind of noise interference as yesterday on BBC2 so clearly something isn't working as it should. No noticeable picture problem this time though.
DT
DTV
BBC Sport need to sought the graphics out in terms of uniformity, while it is evident that in this case it isn't the BBC whose graphics are in the incorrect style - there is a horrendous mismatch of 2010 and 2014 graphics across BBC Sport output and indeed within some sports - MotD uses the new style where as FLS uses the 2010 style. BBC News still occasionally use the 2006 style which is all the more impressive given those graphics originate in a building which opened after they were made obsolete. There is no point in adopting a uniform look (and paying a huge amount for it) if it isn't being enforced universally. You should either have a uniform branding or let every strand create their own branding.
BR
Brekkie
I guess this partly comes from "BBC Sport" not really being the production house it once was and so much being outsourced. You'd think too that Wimbledon was big enough to actually have it's own look - the BBC have been happy to adopt a generic look for the Six Nations so no reason they couldn't for Wimbledon too.
HA
harshy Founding member
dvboy posted:
I think that's right although there is a very close collaboration for example Andrew Castle mentioned a camera man during a match yesterday and they showed a shot of him, and then he smiled at a joke Andrew made so they can react to the BBC commentary, or maybe the BBC have a few extra cameras on some courts?

The commentators are the same on the world feed, its minus the bbc bits and replaced by Sue Therle instead who links it all together(with the old graphics of course)

I am pretty sure BBC produce it, IMG as far as i know put the match graphics on the 10 court feeds + world feed + presentation feed + highlights and distribute it via the EBU to the worlds broadcasters.
HA
harshy Founding member
DTV posted:
BBC Sport need to sought the graphics out in terms of uniformity, while it is evident that in this case it isn't the BBC whose graphics are in the incorrect style - there is a horrendous mismatch of 2010 and 2014 graphics across BBC Sport output and indeed within some sports - MotD uses the new style where as FLS uses the 2010 style. BBC News still occasionally use the 2006 style which is all the more impressive given those graphics originate in a building which opened after they were made obsolete. There is no point in adopting a uniform look (and paying a huge amount for it) if it isn't being enforced universally. You should either have a uniform branding or let every strand create their own branding.

Wasnt FLS produced by IMG Sports Media though? I guess thats the excuse there.
EL
elmarko
Does every court at Wimbledon have it's own gallery with its own switchers and EVS and whatnot? Where are they all?
BR
Brekkie
Wimbledon 2Day getting slated by various corners of the media - probably the best thing they could have done to restore John Inverdales reputation, while Claire Balding has now gone from national treasure to overexposed!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-30/top-gear-with-strawberries-and-cream-anyone-no-wimbledon-2day-is-a-dreadful-mistake

Absolutely agree - a highlights programme should have highlights, not chat - and it's tough enough as it is to get the key content into an hour in the first week. Also really annoys me how they still only start the show at 11.30am and then chat for half an hour or so, usually missing 20-30 minutes of their first game of the day, a match which will almost always be cut short at 1pm too due to switching to Centre/Court 1.

They wouldn't start live coverage of a football match at kick-off time and then spend 20 minutes talking about it before going to the live action, so why do it with tennis? It's not as if they wouldn't be able to begin coverage at 11am.
MA
Markymark
Wimbledon 2Day getting slated by various corners of the media - probably the best thing they could have done to restore John Inverdales reputation, while Claire Balding has now gone from national treasure to overexposed!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-30/top-gear-with-strawberries-and-cream-anyone-no-wimbledon-2day-is-a-dreadful-mistake

Absolutely agree - a highlights programme should have highlights, not chat -


It's the same old stuff. In the name of so called 'inclusiveness' all the zero attention span numpties are targeted perfectly by this s-****-e, whilst anybody actually wanting to see a properly proportioned programme of tennis and meaningful punditry are cast aside. If there was an alternative programme for the latter market on BBC 4 then great, but there's not.

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