The Virgin Media Thread

Do the welsh get it on 2 EPG slots? If so it'll be the same service just patched onto 2 different numbers

EPG slots are a different matter. ALL the services on the satellites arrive at a Sky Digital box, the EPG placings just allocate who gets what where. They don't have any choice over this. There is no limit on EPG numbers, except on the few very old boxes still in use - and if things were that limited they could easily do something with all those Box Office slots

On cable that isn't the case, they have a limited number of video services to each box


Even though it's in a different, minority language? Very few people watch it in Wales, how much of a useful service do you reckon it would be nationally?

On Virgin we don't get lots of regional versions of BBC1 for reasons I have explained previously

In both Sheffield (ex-Yorkshire Cable/Telewest) and Nottingham (ex-Diamond Cable/NTL) BBC One (regional), BBC One London, BBC One NI, BBC One Wales and BBC One Scotland were all available. The only time it came in useful was watching the debates live.

I understand the DVB-S and DVB-C systems perfectly - my main point (which I appreciate I haven't explained all to clearly) is their priorities are wrong - e.g. - why are all those BBC One variants available and yet S4C is not? However niche it has to be more useful than a few regionalised versions of a channel already available.

Both Sky and Virgin have a bottleneck serving channels to customers (with Virgin the physical bandwidth, with Sky the memory capacity of their older boxes), Sky simply seem to do a better job prioritising than Virgin do.

Yes, here in London I get BBC1 London on 101 the audio description version of BBC1 London and the 'England' BBC1 next to Wales, NI, Scotland. I don't know why, yes it is a bit of a waste having 3 identical channels (although I assume that the AD and England versions are actually the same video stream)

As to why S4C isn't available nationally I don't know either but it is definitely less useful purely because it is in a different language!


That's because Sky don't get to prioritise, it's down to market forces. The broadcasters like the BBC and S4C get the slots they pay for and Sky (Sky Subscriber Services Limited) have to let them onto the system and treat them fairly assuming they have room, then it's first come first served.

Virgin are the gatekeepers of their network, they control the entire system. Arguably they prioritise better in terms of channels they let on. With a limited number of slots available they can pick and choose and create the best portfolio of services they can. That's different to Sky who must let on any one who wants a slot, with the accompanying oddities that you know BSkyB would rather wasn't on their system.

Sky don't have to give S4C a national slot (unless they pay for it, which I assume they don't), and yet they do.

Virgin don't have to give all the regional variety on BBC One they do, and yet they do.

I don't see how you can argue that S4C is less worthy of national availability than the BBC One nations.

Expressing that S4C is less useful than, for the sake of argument, a simulcast is ridiculous - they have English subtitles just like every other channel. Have you never watched a foreign language film?

S4C as a PSB is a 'must-carry' for Sky and Virgin, however only in Wales. It would be S4C themselves who wanted a national EPG place on Sky and Sky were obliged by law to give them one, just like they are with any other TV channel. I'm sure they do pay for an EPG slot, as do ITV, the BBC, C4, C5.


Well the people of Wales don't think it that worthy judging by it's viewing figures!

I'd hardly call 3 national versions of BBC1 'regional variety' and they are a new thing (at least they are in my area, I only noticed them a month or so ago). Of course in an ideal world I'd rather not have them and have 3 more unique (English language) channels instead.

Are they obliged by law?



To be fair, I don't judge the value of a PSB based solely on ratings.



I've had them for years and years,

Yes, if you went to the subsidiary of Sky that runs the platform and asked for an EPG slot for Jugalug TV, as long as you agree to pay the going rate (and have the relevant licenses etc), they are obliged to give you an EPG slot.

For very good reasons they (BSkyB) can't decide which channels to carry... and there would be a lot missing from Sky Digital if they could!

Nor do I, that was mostly tongue in cheek. But not all PSB is equal. Really, how useful a welsh, welsh-language channel would be in Sheffield, London or Aberdeen when very few people in Wales actually find it useful?

Are you ex-NTL, I think they might have had long before us now ex-Telewest people got them

I don't think S4C do pay for the national 134 EPG slot - in Wales that slot belongs to Channel 4, so the duality means Sky choose to allocate it to S4C nationally. If S4C did have to pay for the national coverage, I'm sure they'd be duty bound to pay Virgin Media to do the same thing.

It could also have something to do with the original arrangement on Sky Digital, where you had to request that S4C Digidol was made available to your smartcard - at no cost, most odd.

No. In Wales, VM has Channel 4 on 104, and S4C on 167.

On Sky, we just have it on 104, with Channel 4 on a higher number (117-ish)

My understanding is that all channels have to pay EPG carrage fees, including the PSB broadcasters. If S4C, or any of the PSBs on that note, chose to stop paying Sky for their slot, you can be sure they'll be swiftly taken off the EPG. Sky have no obligation to carry S4C, not even in Wales, only to reserve channel number 104 for them in Wales. Therefore S4C have clearly taken the decision to obtain and pay for a national EPG slot.

As Virgin is a closed system I believe the reverse is the case, in which Virgin choose the channels they wish to carry and pay the broadcasters to carry them, funded through subscriber revenue, as highlighted when Sky decided they weren't being payed enough and pulled their channels from the platform. I may be wrong but I imagine Virgin only carry S4C in Wales as a way of keeping costs low, as if it is carried nationally S4C could probably demand more for the increased coverage and potential extra revenue gained from it. I couldn't say why the BBC nations are carried nationwide, my best guess is the BBC insisted on it in the same way they bought a huge block of EPG slots from Sky to carry all the regions/nations.

I think Orry's explination is quite correct to why MTV Classic, MTV Shows and MTV+1 were all removed from Virgin Media, granted I miss Classic, but we gained Comedy Central HD which I do prefer.

Apparently this'll be the look of the software that will be coming to VM/TiVo....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_M2zQNjdagM4/TOETRpwwzZI/AAAAAAAAAm0/OeOEd2mjmzg/s1600/VM.jpg

Me likey, better than the same looking crap font we've had to put up with for over a decade now.