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Videoplus+

Has it got a future after DSO? (December 2007)

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NG
noggin Founding member
Neil Jones posted:

Programme Delivery Control is effectively hidden signals in the Teletext signal.
On a Digital platform there is no Teletext, therefore there is no PDC.

Theoretically it should still be possible (and it probably is under the Sky channels that use PDC and still have a traditional Teletext service) but I think next generation PDC will have to evolve first, and on a DTT service this will very much depend on how good your box is, bearing in mind some of them make a pig's ear out of some of the digital text services.


Not quite right.

The issue that means PDC doesn't work well, if at all, for digital services isn't just that it requires teletext (as DSat can carry teletext with no problem at all, and Sky boxes will re-insert text with no problems), it is that it requires an internal tuner on the recorder rather than an external set top box. (Unless you can dedicate a set top box entirely for recordings)

Why?

Well for PDC to work, the VCR, when in standby waiting to timer record, has to constantly change channels on its internal tuner, to check for the PDC information for its recordings on each channel,
to see if it has changed start time/stop time etc. If you have an external set top box connected to your VCR then a) it has to be able to remotely change channel to do this and b) if you are watching the set top box you would get very bored with it changing channel every 5".

For PDC the VCR, when in timer record standby, is constantly changing channels on its analogue tuner (so flipping between BBC One, BBC Two, ITV1, C4 and Five) - to check for updated schedule changes so that it doesn't miss programmes that are starting early or late. It can't really do this on digital, hence the lack of reliable PDC on most digital channels. This is also why PDC sometimes fails when you have two recordings close to each other on different channels - as once it starts the first recording it can't check for changes to the next one until it has finished recording.

For DSat there is the Sky EPG (and soon the open Freesat one) and on DTT there is the open EPG (which is now updated dynamically) which allow PDC functions to be implemented in equipment with digital tuners without the "constant surf" PDC limitation, so PDC is effectively defunct anyway on digital services. These provide updated schedule info constantly, and you don't need to be tuned to a specific service to receive schedule info for that service - as they are carried on all outlets.

Sky have their VCR/DVD Recorder control on the VCR SCART that allows compatible VCRs to be remotely switched in to record by the EPG, and of course have their own Sky+ recorders.

Freeview Playback PVRs offer similar functionality - though non-Playback PVRs and DVD Recorders may not fully use the dynamic EPG, and just use it as a way of setting start and stop times when you initially request the recording, rather than accepting EPG updates after you've set a show to record.
CW
cwathen Founding member
Turning back to the original query, that of whether VideoPlus has a future, the obvious answer, in a world of recorders with DTT tuners built in (whether they record to hard disk, DVD or even VHS - there are actually a few models around) which can all set recordings directly from the EPG, is no.

Personally, I've never understood why VideoPlus ever became popular in the first place. Yes I understand the principal is straightforward, but surely it's more convenient just to learn how to set the manual timer on your VCR so that you don't have to constantly look up the numbers on teletext or in your listings guide - for me the ease of use factor is far outweighed by it simply being an inefficient and inconvenient way of doing things. And that's before you even think about the issue that some VCR's didn't provide you with a way to under/over run the published transmission time (or else buried it under a myriad of menus) which can lead to the start/end of programmes being missed.

Every VHS deck I've had for the last 10 years has had VideoPlus on it, and it's something I've never used - when you know the time and channel of a programme I fail to see how it's more convenient to track down the code for it rather than just set the timer directly.

Nevertheless, working 'on the ground' in an electrical shop as I do, it seems that an awful lot of people do still use VideoPlus - when someone is looking to trade their analogue VCR to a DTT DVD/PVR, one of the first questions often asked is 'does it have VideoPlus?'. Then the feedback from the installation guys is usually that even though customers have had the (IMO surely better) method of setting recordings straight out of the EPG explained to them, they often completely discount that method and just want to know how to set things via VideoPlus (which is actually still included in almost all half decent DVD recorders).

That in mind, even though there is no practical purpose for VideoPlus to survive after analogue (not that I ever felt it had much of a reason to exist in the first place), I can easily see that consumer demand means it WILL survive, at least for a while.
NG
noggin Founding member
Videoplus had the advantage that you could just type in a reference number you saw in front of you - and was the same on pretty much every VCR. Manual timer entry varied from model to model, and was not intuitive for many people - though I never had a problem with it. Every timer on a VCR I had was pretty logical.

HOWEVER - Videoplus latterly was used in association with PDC - meaning late / early starts were (sometimes) tracked more effectively than with manual timer setting.

Another popular system in the 80s and early 90s was StarText, which put a teletext decoder in the VCR and "read" the listings, allowing you to set the timer from the Ceefax and Oracle/Teletext listings. (Kind of similar to the EPGs of today using 70s technology!)
PA
patrickm
Yes I remember star text. My VCR had it, allowing me to scroll up and down the tv listings, similar to todays epg. Forgot all about that!

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