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UTV strike 1990s?

(May 2015)

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SP
Steve in Pudsey
Transmitters rebroadcasting another region that was staying on a bit later was a fairly regular occurrence, apparently.

Eventually I believe regions who were closing earlier than others would put a test card or similar up after closing down until the other regions had also shut down.


You mean for the Beeb ? The BBC had a VBI ident system that was supposed to inhibit RBS switching
during regional opts, but it was far from fool proof (at least in this part of the world).


Yes, I was replying to the comments above about BBC NI and Scotland. Should have been clearer, sorry.
MM
MMcG198
You mean for the Beeb ? The BBC had a VBI ident system that was supposed to inhibit RBS switching during regional opts, but it was far from fool proof (at least in this part of the world).


Interesting. Well, it certainly never seemed to work in Northern Ireland. If BBC NI closed down before Network, they would always put out black + tone until just after Network's symbol + National Anthem. But if BBC Scotland was still broadcasting after Network and BBC NI closed down, we received the BBC Scotland pictures.

Which part of the VBI carried this data? Obviously a number of lines were reserved for teletext. Underneath the single line (blue) composite pulse and bar, there was a line of dots, broken up into separate sections - I think this was for PresFax? I always recall one of these 'groups' of dots seemed to be for the countdown to the next event/programme. I do recall a line being inserted very close to the pulse and bar line in the 1990s, which consisted of a sequence of little lines like this:
___ __ ____ ____ ____ __ ____

Something vaguely like that anyway. This seemed to me to be some sort of regional identifier. I recall that the arrangement looked slightly different for Network, BBC NI and BBC Scotland. Perhaps my memory is playing up, not sure. It's been over 25 years since I had a set which allowed me to view the VBI.
MA
Markymark
You mean for the Beeb ? The BBC had a VBI ident system that was supposed to inhibit RBS switching during regional opts, but it was far from fool proof (at least in this part of the world).


Interesting. Well, it certainly never seemed to work in Northern Ireland. If BBC NI closed down before Network, they would always put out black + tone until just after Network's symbol + National Anthem. But if BBC Scotland was still broadcasting after Network and BBC NI closed down, we received the BBC Scotland pictures.

Which part of the VBI carried this data? Obviously a number of lines were reserved for teletext. Underneath the single line (blue) composite pulse and bar, there was a line of dots, broken up into separate sections - I think this was for PresFax? I always recall one of these 'groups' of dots seemed to be for the countdown to the next event/programme. I do recall a line being inserted very close to the pulse and bar line in the 1990s, which consisted of a sequence of little lines like this:
___ __ ____ ____ ____ __ ____

Something vaguely like that anyway. This seemed to me to be some sort of regional identifier. I recall that the arrangement looked slightly different for Network, BBC NI and BBC Scotland. Perhaps my memory is playing up, not sure. It's been over 25 years since I had a set which allowed me to view the VBI.


I think it was on lines 21/334 and/or 22/335. So, yes 'below' the ITS signals that were UK standard 19/332 and 20/333. Those lines were normally empty on ITV and C4 broadcasts, but sometimes when C4 would occasionally get connected directly to the Tx, there were pulses there too, probably from C4's CATS system that was their equivalent of Presfax (normally those lines were stripped off at the regional ITV centres)

The ID pulses were very sensitive to group delay effects, and consequently the decoders at the Tx sites would often fail to decode them properly. There was a particular problem when
BBC South took the Sunday politics programme from Bristol (back in the 90s). The regional VBI ID originated in Bristol, but by the time it had travelled to Southampton, then through Rowridge, and received off air by Hannington, Hannington's decoder couldn't recognise the ID as being valid, and so switched itself to Crystal Palace
HA
harshy Founding member
Col posted:
For clarification, when I said "network feed" in my previous message on this thread, what UTV viewers saw that night was News at Ten broadcast with no commercials in the break before, during and after - and in the regional bulletin slot, a programme menu was shown instead. I'm unsure where that could have been sourced from - I can't recall whether or not it used the graphics package ITV-branded trailers used at the time, but I'm quiet sure there wasn't a reference to ITV, UTV or any other programme company. Apologies for any confusion over the choice of words I used.

In terms of Border/STV received via analogue signals on the coastal fringes of Northern Ireland, I have relatives who live on the coast who would frequently pick up both regions during favourable weather. I remember watching a snowy Border signal, picked up via an internal antenna, when visiting their house one New Year; the first time I'd seen another ITV region's broadcasts.

I'm pretty sure the itv network feed these days just consists of programme, 45 secs vt clock, itv trailers, next programme, I don't recall a programme menu ever been shown, it was interesting to see what they did during daybreak although I can't remember what the network feed did when there was regional news, I really should have recorded it, whilst I had the opportunity...

I can imagine the itv network feed being more interesting before 1998
SC
Si-Co
I think it was around 1998/1999 when a network feed, in the true sense of the word, came into being. I think it coincided with the launch of the 'hearts' look. As I understand it from this point prime time programming was routed via Carlton/LWT who inserted selected trails and ECPs into the feed. Continuity was still local or semi-local (UNM, NTC, etc) so you would hear both the network (I assume Carlton/LWT) announcer voice the ECP (normally promoting next week's episode or a different programme, but not necessarily what was on next), then a local announcer take over and tell us what was in next on Anglia, Granada, etc). I remember networked 'programme change' line-ups on 11/09/2001 along with local idents and announcers - a bit messy, perhaps. I don't think SMG or UTV took them, understandably.

I stand to be corrected, but I think 1998/99 was the point when the clean programme feed was lost across the network, leading to 'but not here in Scotland' announcements and the like. Of course, when LNN took over continuity in 2002, this situation was worsened until the feed was cleaned up to something like harshy mentions above. "Ignore the southern ponce, next on Scottish it's Postcode Challenge' - well, kinda.
BL
bluecortina
You mean for the Beeb ? The BBC had a VBI ident system that was supposed to inhibit RBS switching during regional opts, but it was far from fool proof (at least in this part of the world).


Interesting. Well, it certainly never seemed to work in Northern Ireland. If BBC NI closed down before Network, they would always put out black + tone until just after Network's symbol + National Anthem. But if BBC Scotland was still broadcasting after Network and BBC NI closed down, we received the BBC Scotland pictures.

Which part of the VBI carried this data? Obviously a number of lines were reserved for teletext. Underneath the single line (blue) composite pulse and bar, there was a line of dots, broken up into separate sections - I think this was for PresFax? I always recall one of these 'groups' of dots seemed to be for the countdown to the next event/programme. I do recall a line being inserted very close to the pulse and bar line in the 1990s, which consisted of a sequence of little lines like this:
___ __ ____ ____ ____ __ ____

Something vaguely like that anyway. This seemed to me to be some sort of regional identifier. I recall that the arrangement looked slightly different for Network, BBC NI and BBC Scotland. Perhaps my memory is playing up, not sure. It's been over 25 years since I had a set which allowed me to view the VBI.


I think it was on lines 21/334 and/or 22/335. So, yes 'below' the ITS signals that were UK standard 19/332 and 20/333. Those lines were normally empty on ITV and C4 broadcasts, but sometimes when C4 would occasionally get connected directly to the Tx, there were pulses there too, probably from C4's CATS system that was their equivalent of Presfax (normally those lines were stripped off at the regional ITV centres)

The ID pulses were very sensitive to group delay effects, and consequently the decoders at the Tx sites would often fail to decode them properly. There was a particular problem when
BBC South took the Sunday politics programme from Bristol (back in the 90s). The regional VBI ID originated in Bristol, but by the time it had travelled to Southampton, then through Rowridge, and received off air by Hannington, Hannington's decoder couldn't recognise the ID as being valid, and so switched itself to Crystal Palace


If I remember correctly line 22 was an agreed 'quiet' line with nothing on it, the vbi becoming so cluttered it was the only remaining guaranteed source of guaranteed black on the analogue signal. Subtitles were on line 335, at ITV anyway. The tx teletext distributed by channel four came from the 'ident' system, not cats although of course the two were closely linked. It was inverted teletext so that if it got to the viewers home it could not normally be decoded.
Last edited by bluecortina on 22 May 2015 8:07pm

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