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UTV and SMG in dispute with ITV plc

UTV complaints re. ITV2 & NC; SMG complaints re. ITV brand (March 2004)

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LO
Londoner
Quote:
Ulster TV disputes ITV1 charges
Paul Revoir
11 March 2004 08:00

A row has blown up between Ulster TV and ITV over claims that the newly merged company is selling on hit shows such as Coronation Street to ITV2 too cheaply.

A row has blown up between Ulster TV and ITV over claims that the newly merged company is selling on hit shows such as Coronation Street to ITV2 too cheaply.

Ulster, one of the three remaining independent ITV franchise holders, pays towards shows such as Coronation Street and Emmerdale through its ITV1 budget contributions. However, many of the shows - including films - are then repeated on ITV2, which is wholly owned by ITV plc, formerly Carlton and Granada. ITV2 has its own budget to buy such shows, but Ulster is concerned that ITV2 is not paying a fair price.

An Ulster spokeswoman said: "We are in dispute with [ITV plc] about the charging from ITV1 for ITV1 programmes to ITV2 and ITV News."

A source suggested that if ITV1 got market rates for its shows from ITV2, it could in turn lower ITV1 programme costs. Ulster would then have to contribute less.

Ulster is also concerned that the ITV News Channel is using ITV1 News programming for a cut-price fee.

Ulster is also believed to be annoyed at the amount of ITV1 spin-offs on ITV2, such as Pop Idol Extra, which it believes it is indirectly funding by paying towards the main shows on ITV1.

The other independent ITV companies SMG - owner of STV and Grampian - and Channel TV said they were not contesting the ITV2 issue, but SMG has expressed concerns about the ITV News Channel.
TI
This Is Granada
James Hatts posted:
Quote:
Ulster TV disputes ITV1 charges
Paul Revoir
11 March 2004 08:00

A row has blown up between Ulster TV and ITV over claims that the newly merged company is selling on hit shows such as Coronation Street to ITV2 too cheaply.

A row has blown up between Ulster TV and ITV over claims that the newly merged company is selling on hit shows such as Coronation Street to ITV2 too cheaply.

Ulster, one of the three remaining independent ITV franchise holders, pays towards shows such as Coronation Street and Emmerdale through its ITV1 budget contributions. However, many of the shows - including films - are then repeated on ITV2, which is wholly owned by ITV plc, formerly Carlton and Granada. ITV2 has its own budget to buy such shows, but Ulster is concerned that ITV2 is not paying a fair price.

An Ulster spokeswoman said: "We are in dispute with [ITV plc] about the charging from ITV1 for ITV1 programmes to ITV2 and ITV News."

A source suggested that if ITV1 got market rates for its shows from ITV2, it could in turn lower ITV1 programme costs. Ulster would then have to contribute less.

Ulster is also concerned that the ITV News Channel is using ITV1 News programming for a cut-price fee.

Ulster is also believed to be annoyed at the amount of ITV1 spin-offs on ITV2, such as Pop Idol Extra, which it believes it is indirectly funding by paying towards the main shows on ITV1.

The other independent ITV companies SMG - owner of STV and Grampian - and Channel TV said they were not contesting the ITV2 issue, but SMG has expressed concerns about the ITV News Channel.


Just another cast of UTV having nothing better to do than complain about ITV1! ITV is hardly going to Rip-off ITV2 by selling Corrie for an arm and a leg, and the last thing ITV would want for ITV2 to go down the U-bend by having nothing to show if the channel could not buy Corrie & Emmerdale!

Can't help but think UTV are tight with their money. That’s probably why using a breakbumper for an ident for months on end and next to nothing on the continuity front is considered good enough by UTV. I know its been said millions of times but UTV should clean up their act first before moaning. The bit about "Ulster being annoyed at the amount of ITV1 spin-offs on ITV2, such as Pop Idol Extra, which it believes it is indirectly funding by paying towards the main shows on ITV1" is a bit stupid. What do the idiots at UTV expect ITV2 to show then?? I take it that if ITV2 gets rid of every Spin off and Corrie and Emmerdale repeats Ulster will provide their back catalogue of “Lesser Spotted Ulster” and “Jenny Bistro cooking” for ITV2 then! UTV got rid of UTV2. They absolutely DID NOT have to did they? They chose to right?

As for SMG well their just going along with it so that if anything does happen with the money side of it and UTV pay less then SMG will benefit too.
RD
rdd Founding member
UTV do have a point. If ITV2, which UTV recieves no revenue from, is getting programmes UTV pay for for little or nothing, then UTV have a right to complain. ITV2 are not part of the ITV Network, they are part of ITV plc. They should have to buy programmes at the market rate. Otherwise it is unfair cross-subsidisation.
OH
ohwhatanight Founding member
So how does it work when a BBC1 programme is broadcast on BBC3 ? Is the license fee money wasted on BBC3 purchasing the programme rights from BBC1???

Rolling Eyes
:-(
A former member
i find it really hard to understand that ITV2 have to pay to show programs from ITV1. This merger has even messed things up even more on the ITV Network now. You have an ITV Network, ITV Plc, ITV2 and News Channel seperate, with Granada and Carlton still sort of apearing and the licenses are still for e.g. like Carlton London and Granada for ITV1 North West. Will the ITV ever get into proper shape?!? I thought this merger would mean just ITV not different parts on ITV in different places and operating under different names?!? Im confused! Rolling Eyes
OH
ohwhatanight Founding member
Its not *THAT* confusing anymore! The ITV plan is all starting to come together and should be 100% resolved when the analogue bandwidth is sold off.

ITV Plc is the main company which now owns all English and Welsh ITV1 regions, ITV2, ITV News and ITV News Channels - where Channel, STV and UTV still contribute to the funding mechanism that has always been in place.

UTV are stupid for not joining the ITV1 bandwagon and it would alleviate a lot of the problems that UTV suffer.

If UTV supplied programmes to the ITV1 network and then they were being sold to ITV2 for a tiny amount then UTV would have something to moan about - but surely the way it works is that ITV Plc commission a lot of these programmes now and its irrelevant which ITV channel broadcasts the programme.

UTV need to get into the real world of the multi-channel era and join ITV Plc to take on BBC and Murdoch!
:-(
A former member
ohwhatanight posted:
So how does it work when a BBC1 programme is broadcast on BBC3 ? Is the license fee money wasted on BBC3 purchasing the programme rights from BBC1???

Rolling Eyes


Of course not, but even if it was it wouldn't be wasted license fee as it would be staying in the corporation
FA
fanoftv
ohwhatanight posted:
Its not *THAT* confusing anymore! The ITV plan is all starting to come together and should be 100% resolved when the analogue bandwidth is sold off.

ITV Plc is the main company which now owns all English and Welsh ITV1 regions, ITV2, ITV News and ITV News Channels - where Channel, STV and UTV still contribute to the funding mechanism that has always been in place.

UTV are stupid for not joining the ITV1 bandwagon and it would alleviate a lot of the problems that UTV suffer.

If UTV supplied programmes to the ITV1 network and then they were being sold to ITV2 for a tiny amount then UTV would have something to moan about - but surely the way it works is that ITV Plc commission a lot of these programmes now and its irrelevant which ITV channel broadcasts the programme.

UTV need to get into the real world of the multi-channel era and join ITV Plc to take on BBC and Murdoch!


Great post, and I agree fully.
GC
GaryC
ohwhatanight posted:

UTV are stupid for not joining the ITV1 bandwagon and it would alleviate a lot of the problems that UTV suffer.

If UTV supplied programmes to the ITV1 network and then they were being sold to ITV2 for a tiny amount then UTV would have something to moan about - but surely the way it works is that ITV Plc commission a lot of these programmes now and its irrelevant which ITV channel broadcasts the programme.

UTV need to get into the real world of the multi-channel era and join ITV Plc to take on BBC and Murdoch!


I dont often feel the need to post; but really, If your going to offer an explanation at least give the RIGHT one!

ITV Plc DO NOT commission programmes: ITV Network centre do - as per the broadcasting act 1992(i think) It is still supposed to function on behalf of all the companies.

So, UTV pay into the pot to make the shows. As part of the commissioning broadcaster they are entitled to pay less for a production if the production company can get more money from re-sales to fund the deal

This is how alot of Discovery stuff is funded, and most international drama.

ITV plc earn revenue from the shows it runs on itv2, and exclusive continuation material (pop idol extra etc)

It should pay ITV network centre a bigger part of that cash, and reduce the amount the first-run/commissioning organisation pays.

UTV are being disadvantaged by this deal, as are SMG and (to a lesser extent Channel - their financial contribution is minisucle)

That said, they were very short sighted to settle for cash to allow the launch of itv2 uk wide a few years ago.

Things could have been diffrent - if they kept s2/utv2 they could access the same shows at the same terms as ITV plc, and keep the ad revenue.

With multichannel in over half of households, UTV and SMG could now have a very succesful digital channel.

...or maybe thats the deal that UTV are trying to get torn up..........
NW
nwtv2003
UTV had a second channel on Digital TV, it only lasted for a short time, but it was their decision to close it and for them to sell the space to Carlton and Granada for ITV2, they should have knew what they got to in the first place. If they hung in a bit longer UTV2 could have been more successful, by the time ITV2 went on Sky, UTV2 I think had closed.

Same thing happened to SMG but they're not moaning.
MN
MarkN Founding member
ohwhatanight posted:
So how does it work when a BBC1 programme is broadcast on BBC3 ? Is the license fee money wasted on BBC3 purchasing the programme rights from BBC1???


The BBC owns both BBC1 and BBC3.

UTV does not own ITV2. UTV do not make any money from ITV2, apart from the fees that ITV2 pays to broadcast material produced for ITV Network Ltd, because ITV2 is not part of the ITV Network. ITV plc makes more money, because they are the company who owns ITV2, and thus get all the advertising revenue etc. The same applies to the ITV News Channel.

Edit: You probably already know this if you have read GaryC's post!
LO
Londoner
AFAIK the ITV News Channel is not wholly-owned by ITV plc - NTL still has 35%

I know there was talk of Carlton and Granada buying out NTL's stake, but I don't think it happened in the end.

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