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Update on regional BBC One HD

Points of View statement: BBC seeking "creative solutions" (October 2017)

MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
dvboy posted:
You don't have to separate the regional news from the national if you switch PIDs before the national news starts and show that in SD also.

Does the news really have to be in HD anyway? I'd argue it adds less value than it does to sport or drama.



It's not really about having the news in HD per se, but rather not having gaps during the regional opt slots on BBC 1 HD.


The gaps ars so retro 50s. They might ass well proclaim "Intermission".


I quite like them. I was in The Netherlands last month, on the cable network that my hotel was using, the only version of BBC 1 available, was the HD version. It's an excellent time to go and brush your teeth during BBC Breakfast (though I'm sure the gaps on there on HD used to be filled with London News (because that's the sustaining output from the Salford gallery ?)
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
DV
dvboy Central (West) Midlands Today
dvboy posted:
You don't have to separate the regional news from the national if you switch PIDs before the national news starts and show that in SD also.

Does the news really have to be in HD anyway? I'd argue it adds less value than it does to sport or drama.



It's not really about having the news in HD per se, but rather not having gaps during the regional opt slots on BBC 1 HD.


Hence my suggestion of doing it for example at 1758 rather than at 1828.
Tennis on telly | Hello, good evening, and remain indoors.
LL
London Lite Founding member London London


It's not really about having the news in HD per se, but rather not having gaps during the regional opt slots on BBC 1 HD.


The gaps ars so retro 50s. They might ass well proclaim "Intermission".


I quite like them. I was in The Netherlands last month, on the cable network that my hotel was using, the only version of BBC 1 available, was the HD version. It's an excellent time to go and brush your teeth during BBC Breakfast (though I'm sure the gaps on there on HD used to be filled with London News (because that's the sustaining output from the Salford gallery ?)


It's the same on Zattoo Switzerland's paid version, BBC One England HD only, although the free version is BBC One London.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
dvboy posted:
dvboy posted:
You don't have to separate the regional news from the national if you switch PIDs before the national news starts and show that in SD also.

Does the news really have to be in HD anyway? I'd argue it adds less value than it does to sport or drama.



It's not really about having the news in HD per se, but rather not having gaps during the regional opt slots on BBC 1 HD.


Hence my suggestion of doing it for example at 1758 rather than at 1828.


Ah, I follow your logic now
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
NG
noggin Founding member
a516 posted:
Why couldn’t they just switch to the SD channel that already exists?

This is the obvious solution if PID switching was supported.


PID switching isn't transponder switching AIUI - it just lets you switch a service on one transponder between multiple video and audio streams (which have different PIDS) on the same transponder. Forcing a re-tune is a lot more complex (and I'm not sure how standardised that is as a function?)
NG
noggin Founding member
dvboy posted:
dvboy posted:
You don't have to separate the regional news from the national if you switch PIDs before the national news starts and show that in SD also.

Does the news really have to be in HD anyway? I'd argue it adds less value than it does to sport or drama.



It's not really about having the news in HD per se, but rather not having gaps during the regional opt slots on BBC 1 HD.


Hence my suggestion of doing it for example at 1758 rather than at 1828.


Any suggestion that would shift the entire Network news operation in England from HD back to SD is a non-starter...
TJ
TedJrr Anglia (East) Look East
a516 posted:
Why couldn’t they just switch to the SD channel that already exists?

This is the obvious solution if PID switching was supported.


PID switching isn't transponder switching AIUI - it just lets you switch a service on one transponder between multiple video and audio streams (which have different PIDS) on the same transponder. Forcing a re-tune is a lot more complex (and I'm not sure how standardised that is as a function?)


These are differnt things. Having regional streams on a separate transponder involved requires code to be available on *ALL* Sky and FreeSat boxes, and a relationship established with a data stream that flags the transitions.

PID switching requres logic to be available at box level, but is much less invasive.

In the past Sky have vetoed both approaches, by requiring and eye-watering indemnity agaist degredations of platform stability.

The issue is that the Sky network is now nery stable, and very understood. If BBC sub-regional opt-outs were facilitated by having alternate streams, then would Sky come to the party?
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I’m sure we were having similar discussions 15 years ago before the BBC surprised us by launching all SD BBC One regions as full, separate streams on DSat, despite many suggestions and claims that the cost to the Beeb of doing this would be prohibitive.
NG
noggin Founding member
I’m sure we were having similar discussions 15 years ago before the BBC surprised us by launching all SD BBC One regions as full, separate streams on DSat, despite many suggestions and claims that the cost to the Beeb of doing this would be prohibitive.


But that was tied, at least publicly, to the cost saving of the BBC ceasing to pay Sky to encrypt their broadcasts/manage Solus cards for FTV, and switching to FTA, because of the Astra 2S spot beam on the UK/Ireland which reduced spill to the rest of Europe to a level that rights holders were able to agree to. (Whether the cost saving from no longer encrypting actually paid for the full costs of the extra transponders? Not sure - but it at least mitigated the cost a bit)
NG
noggin Founding member
a516 posted:
This is the obvious solution if PID switching was supported.


PID switching isn't transponder switching AIUI - it just lets you switch a service on one transponder between multiple video and audio streams (which have different PIDS) on the same transponder. Forcing a re-tune is a lot more complex (and I'm not sure how standardised that is as a function?)


These are differnt things. Having regional streams on a separate transponder involved requires code to be available on *ALL* Sky and FreeSat boxes, and a relationship established with a data stream that flags the transitions.

PID switching requres logic to be available at box level, but is much less invasive.

In the past Sky have vetoed both approaches, by requiring and eye-watering indemnity agaist degredations of platform stability.

The issue is that the Sky network is now nery stable, and very understood. If BBC sub-regional opt-outs were facilitated by having alternate streams, then would Sky come to the party?


Yep - both would require Freesat and Sky to implement new 'switching' tech in their boxes - not sure I see it happening, particularly as I'm not sure the BBC has alternative uses for the HD bandwidth during regional downtime any more. (Red button streams are on the way out)

I think the reality in the UK is that the BBC, like ITV, would just need to bite the bullet and put 24/7 regional HD BBC One streams up...
RO
roo London London
Also worth pointing out that R&D have been looking at using HbbTV to offer IP opt-outs which could be used to deliver selectable regional opts (although obviously this is not a ubiquitous solution to the current problem)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2017-08-companion-screen-synchronisation-personalised-tv
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2017-09-ibc-2017-day-5-monday-bbc-rd

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