Two Minutes Silence - 13 Nov 2005

Well, if you don't like it, don't watch it - simple as that. No one is forcing you to watch it. Have you not thought that this 'pomp and noncy foncy stuff' isn't put on for the delectation of ignorant young idiots like you - it's put on so that those tiresome 'old people' who take part in it, and who aren't able to take part but are watching on TV, can honour and remember their colleagues, who they fought and died with. I can't believe how spoilt and selfish your attitude is - surely the least they deserve is a couple of hours coverage on one or two TV channels once a year - you can always turn over to Nickelodeon, after all.

Yes, i am indeed an ignorant young idiot.. Yes, I love to watch Nickleodeon... Aren't you so very clever, Bacchic...

As I have said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I respect yours so you respect mine. I haven't personally attacked anyone yet people are attacking me.

All I have said is why do they have to do it year after year after year? They say the same things over and over again. Every year we see the same old people (and by the way calling them old is in NO WAY detremental) do the same old thing. OK - it's to remember the dead and the soldiers - but isn't that is what the two minutes silence is for!??

I've never been a big fan of these big 'do's' anyway - some of them make me cringe.

I watched this because I was with my Grandparents at the time and they wanted to watch it. I always remember the fallen heroes every year, along with the rest of the country who respect the two minutes silence. I'm just merely saying why do they have to have all of this bravado about it every year?

And I wish people would stop name calling - it's an opinion - if you don't like it, don't read it.

Jay.
Just do me a favour.
Next time you are passing a memorial to the war dead stop and read some of the names. I don't know where you live, but consider a rural town or village and the effect that would have had on family's being devasted, ie fathers and sons lost. Look at some of the ages and try to visualise what it would mean to the civilians left at home. I know a memorial in a small town in France (even now only 6000 people live there) where seven men were lost in one family alone. Yes, there may be some old people who don't show respect in supermarkets etc but perhaps they are trying to forget more than us. We should also be aware that the ceremonies are for the survivors to remeber their friends who died, not just in WWI and WWII but all conlicts since 1918 and there have been plenty of those.
And finally, if you get the chance to read a book called "Eagle Day" by Richard Collier you'll just begin to understand what it's all about.

Look, do me a favour and actually READ what I'm saying.

I DO respect the dead and what they did for this country. I do it every year, at 11pm on the 11th November along with the rest of this country.

I realise the impact it has when a family loses members, of course I do.

I'm going to jump in with my two penneth worth on this one.

I'm 29 so haven't lived through the two world wars but My father, Uncle, and Gradfather all fought in the second world war, and my other grandfather fought in the first world war. and infact died as a result of being gassed just a few months before my father was born.

I'm not sure that we do need to have two silences in the same week to observe Armistice Day and Rememberance Sunday. we don't have a two min silence to commemerate the second world war ending, so maybe now we should stop having the 11/11 one! (just my personal view!)

We should however respect with services or rememberance, the 2 min silence and the wearing (if you wish) of a poppy on the closest sunday to the 11 (Rememberance Day) this day isn't just to remeber those who lost their lives in battle in the two world wars but also everybody who has lost their lives in battle for this country from the current Iraq confilict to the Faukland War. and those are very relevent to today, as we're still losing lives in Iraq.

When you say Jay that you see the old walking past a concrete stone. yes they are along with releatives and other servicemen from our more recent history. (they're not all old!) but they do that to pay their respects to them, and it is human nature to have some sort of place to go to. just like going to a grave to pay you respects.

You say Jay that you wouldn't fight a war for your country and I respect you for that. but is that in any circumstance? even if this country was invaded by another and hundreds of thousands of people were killed for no apparant reason except to gain power of this country would you then not fight for the right ot live the life of a free man?

Sorry for getting a bit heavy there this thread seem to make me want to get that off my chest, I'll go back to lurking on these forums now!

Well perhaps you'd do well to be less scornful of other people choosing to carry out their personal remembrance in a different way to you.

You raise some fair points there, Thames.

I realise that the Rememberance in November is for all wars - past and present. and yes, of course it is very sad that all of these people have died in action.

You are also right about the grave thing - but I am not broadcast on TV when I visit a grave am I?

I think my problem lies with my hate of all of these 'events' where the Queen expresses her deepest condolences etc. etc. It just gets on my nerves so much! How can they justify spending money on something like this every year when many of the pensioners that march their have to survive on a crap pension.

And you also raise a very good issue regarding fighting for the country - maybe if we were invaded by brutes I would reconsider my options - but I wouldn't voluntarily go out to some crap place in Iraq or somewhere and fight for my country - why the heck should I? But that is a seperate issue....

I hope you don't all hate me lol - I'm just trying to make my comments but making a bit of a pigs ear of it.

Just to comeback with a couple of answers to your questions, no your not on tv when you go and visit a grave, just the same as many hundreds of rememberance sunday events are not on tv. this one is because its the national event. and for the benefit for those which wish to respect it without going to whitehall, or maybe unable to go to whitehall.

I don't have a problem with this event and the money it costs as I belive it still does have a national importance. and revlevence.

I know what you mean about some of the events that take place and I'm not saying they don't need to continue (as much for tourism as usefulness) like troupling the colour and Lord Mayors parade etc, do these need to be on BBC1 in this multichannel world?

And before any one jumps to conclusions I fully surport the royal family but maybe we need less of these events on tv, maybe that would make more people go and see them in person! [/ tangent]

I think the money they saved by not holding this event, wouldn't make a lot of difference to pensioners money! (sad fact)

We don't all hate you it's just you have inspired discussion on this forum. and you do have quite different views, to many on here and some don't like that others try and get you to explain your views which you've done. what I think one of the things you are trying to get at (I maybe wrong) is that we shouldn't keep these events going because we always have! and that's very true and maybe 60 years on from the end of WW2 we should now look at ways to interact this service into todays world. without forgetting those from the wars, but also those who have been killed / murdered through terrorism/ crime etc

A National remeberance day for everyone then others who think like you would also feel its relevence!

no, hate is not the word, (i can only speak for myself of course) but i think your comments have revealed a level of ignorance that i perhaps didn't expect from you.

you really have come across as if you are far far from the sharpest tool in the box, unable to conceive that there might be an audience that doesn't quite share the jay betts taste in tv. if you had come on here with a spirited, thought through and principled argument against the televising of such ceremonies i am sure you would have been engaged accordingly.

i hope you didn't miss heaven and earth and countryfile too much this week, it is back to normal next week so you can carry on watching hollyoaks omnibus next week safe in the knowledge that if you accidentally lean on the remote you wont be subjected to seeing frail old soldiers mourning their comrades

Andrew why is it that you always have to post exatly what I am thinking just as I reach the end of the thread? It's so unfair

Nevertheless there are a few other points...



it is a seperate issue and quite why anyone suggested it as an example is beyond me. The point of the previous two were we were right next to them - in the case of WWII, on the brink of being invaded. Therefore Iraq as an example is redundant.

So lets try and be remotely sensible about this if we are going to throw examples about.

Lets say the rioting in France resulted in another revolution and then they were going to attack us. If you were conscripted would you go and fight?

(Course it's a redundant question as you wouldn't properly consider it unless it happened. I don't want to go to war - I don't want to die. But if we were being invaded or something - who knows?)

Oh and really - once a year, boo hoo. Ever been to Ypres where it happens every night? I have and I had a damn good plate of chips too.

But naturally we can't have it televised. Who wants to see people losing weight on telly time and time again? It's so dull and pointless

They had a discussion about this on C4N a while back and the reason was simply - why should they were a poppy when it would be frowned upon if they wore a make poverty history band, aids ribbon, gay rights, breat cancer or any other sort of "political motif"