Off-topic: TV Forum & Metropol24))7 - The future

Just one last point about TVF and its former set-up.

I know many of us have met fellow TVFers. If it wasn't for this place, I wouldn't have met Jan, one of my best friends in the world, had it not been for the old Lounge. And, as Jan will testify, neither of us were short of friends before we met.

The Lounge was the social aspect to the forum, as well as TVF's little naughty brother. All the stupid threads, from 'How Fast Does Your Toilet Flush?' to the countless others, made the place a social meeting point.

I'd love to get back to that. If that means MP24))7 rebranding, or the old Lounge re-opening, let's get back to what TVF always did better than any other site, particularly Digital Spy - being a smallish, funny and slightly bitchy community on the edge of the World Wide Web.

The way I see it, TV Forum and Metropol are two seperate sites even if those frequenting them are roughly the same. When The Lounge was here I did use it, but the reason I joined TVF in the first place was to discuss television. Anything else was an added bonus.

Any TVF member who chooses not to be part of Metropol should be entitled to protection from any mockery, bitching, personal insults or nastiness being made in their absence. The admins of Metropol are known not to favour censorship, but those who "opt out" are entitled to some respect too.

Simon, no disrespect, but you are completely oversensitive.

As one of the forum's 'oldskool', I was teased and mocked mercilessly in the old Lounge. It's just part of the fun.

I accused loads of members of all sorts of mischief. And they did the same back to me.

When I remember the old Lounge, it's the bitchiness, the cat-calling and the surrealness of it all that made it such unmissable fun.

tvmercia, sda and I had a big falling out over them saying I was 'Alan Robson'. They were just winding me up.

Part of friendship, part of memories and part of fun is the funny times you have with each other, together with the slightly fractious.

To this day, I still enjoy reading tvmercia's and sda's posts.

When will you learn the difference?

I'm trying to be nice here, but as usual you fail to see the point I'm trying to make. It's fine if you don't mind being teased and mocked mercilessly, but some people might.

As a forum admin myself I realise that people are different and while some may not care what others say about them, others might take offence, particularly on a global medium such as the internet. Respect works on both levels; if I can respect my members they will respect me. There will be occasional when I'll think "what is he on?" but I would be restrained from using any form of character assassination.

Simon, you're trying to hijack this thread from its original purpose to make your point.

That's fine, you have a point of view, and as hard as you may find to believe this, I actually respect you for your honesty about who you are and therefore also respect your point of view.

Mocking and teasing, especially from friends, is a fact of life, especially among males. It's the way we bond, it's the way we build memories, either online or offline.

A lot of my memories from this place come from my mocking others or their mocking me. Ask virtually any 'oldskool' member, and they will most likely say the same.

Ison, tvmercia, Square Eyes, Gavin Scott - the list goes on. They have all mocked and ridiculed me, and I have done the same to them back.

But it's good, funny, harmless fun. For a few months, Gavin and I used to be bitter online enemies, as it were. But I respected Gavin's intelligence and charm, and I presume he respected mine back, and from that, a friendship grew. I would love to meet him, as I would many other members of the place.

This is part of the place's charm, Simon. If you take it personally, that's not our problem, it's yours. If it's too much to bear, just go to TV Ark's forum where you can chuck others off for disagreeing with you.

I am a mod on MP247, and I have encountered a lot of objectionable opinions towards me and others. I have only ever locked two threads in the meantime. Who am I to block the free speech of others, except where I believe it will harm others significantly? Not partially, Simon, not a little bit, but majorly.



Don't try to impose your values on others. TVF and the Lounge were great and impressive places before you showed up.

If you don't like it, leave. You won't be the first or the last.

What makes TVF great is its eclectic, diverse and slightly warped membership, ready at a moment's notice to have a go at each other. My first memories of this place were pitched battles with Jamez and BBC LDN - I was annoyed at the time, but now, after getting to know them, I wouldn't miss their contributions. They are an example of the flavour of the place.

TVF and the Lounge (old and new) is the adult world. Welcome to it.

That is what so many people here would like, and for the sake of my own self-esteem, I cannot and will not give them the satisfaction. The respect that I ask for is not the big deal you make it out to be.


Then some people ought to know better.

Let go of this persecution complex, Simon. It's getting dull now.

When I first joined here, I was obsessed with the old News 24 flags. It was the main reason I joined (other than the BBC1 balloon to find out where the various idents were filmed because I fancied visiting them as a tourist).

Your self-esteem is your issue, Simon. Where on Earth do you get the incredibly self-obsessed notion that there is a whole army of TVFers whose sole purpose is to somehow undermine you?

You must read the rest of the place. The treatment you get is little different to anyone else, and is far less severe than the 'oldskoolers'.

TVF losing up to 50-60% of its traffic because of the removal of the Lounge. This is a big issue to the people who care about its future. I care more for that than I do for the reputation my online nickname has on this place.

I owe TVF (and MP247) a lot. It's part of my life. It's like a woman. Sometimes it'll make you feel great, other times not. Whatever though, you wouldn't be without its (peculiar and unique) charms.



No, Simon, as a 'man' of equal or similar age to me, you should know better than the old 'sticks and stones' proverb.

The fact is that thousands of members have come and gone from TVF over the years. You're the only one who wants to impose draconian standards on everyone else's behaviour.

In the main forums, to stay on topic, there may be an argument for that., But in the Lounge or its replacement, your argument, already intellectually flawed, is unsustainable.

Now, can we please return to topic before this becomes a Loxton soapbox?

Agreed. And I think we can lose the quotation marks around "man".

I think all forums should have an off topic section or lounge.

I have vistited Metropol a few times, but as it isn't actually part of this forum, I don't go there much. I would prefer it a lot if it were actually part of the same forum.

I like Metropol quite a lot, especially the increased freedom over there.

But I do resent the change in direction of the Metropol lounge - I actually miss all the old bitching and stuff.

The old chatroom needs to come back too.

I think that's why the original lounge was moved off-site.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm greatful to Asa on here, and Martin on Metropol for allowing this topic to stay open - this is a shining example of why I prefer this place to Digital Spy; the moderators actually have common sense and aren't just rulebook spouting machines.

It should also be remembered that the operational costs (which DO exist, this isn't just a ready-made Bravenet forum hosted on a free Geocities account) are borne entirely by the two web masters and that the members don't contribute. As such, there is only a limited amount of say that we can expect to have.

Right, that said here's my two penneth'. I've been actively posting here since December 2001, and been reading TVF virtually since it started, so have seen pretty much everything there is to see.

Like most people I signed up to discuss TV presentation (and wider social issues around TV too). But after many an hour debating heavy topics like whether or not Trevor McDonald was wearing a different tie tonight, down to the minor insignificant things like analogue switchoff, widescreen, and new ident sets, it was nice to have somewhere where you could post to the same people but on subjects completely removed from that which brought us here. It was kind of like the way a group of people work together all day, 'talk shop' all day, but then in the evening go out to the pub together and don't mention work once, even though that's what brought them together. Having done something that had nothing whatsoever to do with work, somehow the experience often strengthens and improves the working relationship between those two people.

When the lounge was added, I saw this as a welcome addition because it offered a forum (no pun intended) through which that could be done, and seeing people talk about other, dare I say it 'normal' (using the term lightly of course, considering some threads) topics did somehow make people on here seem more 'real' and led you to have more respect for their opinions in the main forum when you could see that everyone on here isn't a spotty geek, whose life consists of posting on here and recording every junction on BBC1 in case something out of the ordinary happens.

I realise that there were problems with certain members on here, and that Asa found the lounge an annoyance at times, but in general I think this place was better off with it than without it, and I particularly disagreed with it's ultimate closure, which seemed to come at a time when things had settled down and were getting back to normal.

Nevertheless, it was done and Metropol came into existance, as a separate but kind of 'affiliated' lounge replacement. Fine, if it works. And personally, I see no reason why it shouldn't have worked out. But for some reason, people don't post on Metropol as much as people posted on the TVF Lounge, and topics on there aren't as interesting or plentiful as they used to be (although I feel this is partly due to it's over-diversification; with the recently added 'Presentation and Design' forum being a particular waste of space). Looking at Metropol now, the bottom posting on the first page is over 2 weeks old.

Away from there, TV Forum itself seems to have suffered. When I first joined up the place was bustling with activity. If anything it sometimes got annoying for getting TOO busy, when 3 people responded with the same point to a post at exactly the same time because it was so actively followed.

Now, things seem to be levelling off. But if can't be because of a decline in things to talk about - Digital Spy continues to be full to the brim with new threads and active discussions that sometimes border on taking place in real time. As much as I despise the way in which the place is run, with moderators devoid of all common sense, and find it annoying to have to put up with illiterate idiots postings complete crap (which of course, you can't pull them up on without the moderators warning YOU either for attacking them or for commiting that cardinal sin - discussing the forum on the forum), and having to sort through constant TUTV vs Freeview vs Sky vs something else threads, I often find myself posting more actively in there these days, simply because there's more to talk about there than there is here.

Although it's kind of done now and it would be a bit much to reintroduce the Lounge on TVF, leaving Metropol high and dry after all the hard work which went in to it, I do feel that both forums are better off under one roof, and would like it if they could be combined back together. Perhaps a kind of 'franchised' system, where TVF Lounge returns, but the operation of it remains in the hands of Martin and the Metropol moderators?