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TV Broadcast Delay (Analogue TV days)

(April 2019)

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NG
noggin Founding member
Crikey. Someone was recently telling me that the market for playout systems ain't what it used to be, and Grass Valley ICE is about as good as it gets - but I'm sure that other broadcasters who use it don't have a three second delay when pressing a 'take next' button. Did the BBC procure a particularly low-budget version?


I seem to remember someone telling me that UTV, when using Morpheus (GV ICE) in their new Belfast play-out facility before it moved to England, actually had a 5 second delay! They had cleanish feeds to work off, so it wasn't too bad for them.

I can't honestly remember the exact reason for the delays in the Morpheus system... but it's not to do with cut price versions... I think it might be more a side effect of having additional functionality. There's also an additional complication for the network announcers, who have to start speaking a few seconds early in order to stop speaking a few seconds early... their voice is delayed. If they didn't do that, and only stopped speaking just before the programme started... the delay would result in their voice crashing in over the top of the programme. Luckily the Nations announcers don't have that setup.

I have to ask who at Grass Valley thought that was acceptable? I realize master control switching is designed to be more redundant and smaller than regular switchers used for news and sport which may have a few frame delay when cutting sources.


It wasn't really anyone at Grass Valley, they were with Snell / SAM at the time... Morpheus ICE is a former SAM product that GVG acquired with their merger/take-over of SAM. (In fact it's a ProBel heritage product AIUI)

The Morpheus ICE system is a 'channel-in-a-box' system based around IP, rather than HD-SDI, video, and it integrates server Playout, DVE, graphics, voice over etc. into a single unit (though some re-enter video+VO half-way through). AIUI the latency is related to how much processing you want to do 'in the box'...

You can run with lower latency if you do less AIUI... For a non-reactive Playout solution the economics more than justify the latency. Whether it's the right product for a reactive network - that's for others to say.
MA
Markymark

I seem to remember someone telling me that UTV, when using Morpheus (GV ICE) in their new Belfast play-out facility before it moved to England, actually had a 5 second delay! They had cleanish feeds to work off, so it wasn't too bad for them.

I can't honestly remember the exact reason for the delays in the Morpheus system... but it's not to do with cut price versions... I think it might be more a side effect of having additional functionality. There's also an additional complication for the network announcers, who have to start speaking a few seconds early in order to stop speaking a few seconds early... their voice is delayed. If they didn't do that, and only stopped speaking just before the programme started... the delay would result in their voice crashing in over the top of the programme. Luckily the Nations announcers don't have that setup.

I have to ask who at Grass Valley thought that was acceptable? I realize master control switching is designed to be more redundant and smaller than regular switchers used for news and sport which may have a few frame delay when cutting sources.


It wasn't really anyone at Grass Valley, they were with Snell / SAM at the time... Morpheus ICE is a former SAM product that GVG acquired with their merger/take-over of SAM. (In fact it's a ProBel heritage product AIUI)



It is. 11 years old

https://www.tvbeurope.com/production-post/pro-bel-launches-morpheus-ice

Snell and Wilcox bought Probel about 9 years ago to form Snell, then Snell bought Quantel four years ago to form SAM, which a year ago was bought by Belden Group ( GV’s ( amongst lots of others) parent company) and SAM has been assimilated into Belden group, with GV branding being applied to the legacy and acquired product ranges
GE
thegeek Founding member
...and other products being "exited". Which is a bit of a pain if it's a product you only bought a few years ago and are relying on as a key part of your broadcast chain, though I guess understandable from a product development point of view.
OV
Orry Verducci
I seem to remember someone telling me that UTV, when using Morpheus (GV ICE) in their new Belfast play-out facility before it moved to England, actually had a 5 second delay! They had cleanish feeds to work off, so it wasn't too bad for them.

I have to ask who at Grass Valley thought that was acceptable? I realize master control switching is designed to be more redundant and smaller than regular switchers used for news and sport which may have a few frame delay when cutting sources.

It's not a problem unique to Grass Valley, I use Marina automation with Dolphin integrated channel devices (similar to Morpheus/ICE) and I have about a second delay between hitting the 'play next' button and it doing it. This is combined with about a 10-15 frame processing delay on the live video inputs to the servers.


It's simply down to software processing time for the automation to validate what you're asking it to do, and for the integrated channel software to accept that command and action it. It's a step backwards from hitting take on a pres desk (vision mixer) and having everything happen in real time, but it's a small cost for all the benefits you get.
RK
Rkolsen
Would there be a delay if you were running in a strictly HD-SDI master control switcher using master control automation software?
NG
noggin Founding member
Would there be a delay if you were running in a strictly HD-SDI master control switcher using master control automation software?


There can be if the automation software has to figure in pre-cue delays for various bits of kit. The delays may be smaller - but they still exist.

But moving forward HD-SDI is an increasingly legacy technology, so won't be with us for that much longer I suspect. Playout is ahead of the game in moving to all-IP paths, but production is following.

(Though Quad 12G and the new fibre-based U-SDI standard are finding use in 8K Production, where baseband bitrates make IP less compelling in the short term...)

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