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TV Broadcast Delay (Analogue TV days)

(April 2019)

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DE
denton
Three seconds!?


Yep. You get used to hitting Take 3 seconds before the end of certain theme tunes, if you want to come out of the programme without hanging on the endboard too long.

Crikey. Someone was recently telling me that the market for playout systems ain't what it used to be, and Grass Valley ICE is about as good as it gets - but I'm sure that other broadcasters who use it don't have a three second delay when pressing a 'take next' button. Did the BBC procure a particularly low-budget version?


I seem to remember someone telling me that UTV, when using Morpheus (GV ICE) in their new Belfast play-out facility before it moved to England, actually had a 5 second delay! They had cleanish feeds to work off, so it wasn't too bad for them.

I can't honestly remember the exact reason for the delays in the Morpheus system... but it's not to do with cut price versions... I think it might be more a side effect of having additional functionality. There's also an additional complication for the network announcers, who have to start speaking a few seconds early in order to stop speaking a few seconds early... their voice is delayed. If they didn't do that, and only stopped speaking just before the programme started... the delay would result in their voice crashing in over the top of the programme. Luckily the Nations announcers don't have that setup.
Last edited by denton on 20 April 2019 2:52am
BC
Blake Connolly Founding member
5 seconds? Not going to complain about my 2 second delay on taking next any more, then!
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Do programmes on the BBC clean feed have VT clocks or just sit on a freeze frame of early vision? I guess hitting take early is much easier with a clock
HA
harshy Founding member
No vt clocks on bbc sport feeds just sits on first frame.
Last edited by harshy on 20 April 2019 12:28pm - 2 times in total
NG
noggin Founding member
Do programmes on the BBC clean feed have VT clocks or just sit on a freeze frame of early vision? I guess hitting take early is much easier with a clock


Live BBC shows, or shows that are pre-recorded but played in remotely. are not allowed to run from VT clocks, they have to run from pictures (though most will start with a second or so of 'early vision'). ISTR that the 'no running from clocks' rule was introduced 15+ years ago when too many clocks were being cut to air... (Well it was one way of solving the problem)

(VT Inserts into shows can run from clocks, last frame slate, first frame pictures etc., as that is up to the production team making the show)
UKnews and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
HA
harshy Founding member
Sky and ITV still use VT Clocks, BBC are the only ones that don’t.
BC
Blake Connolly Founding member
Sky and ITV still use VT Clocks, BBC are the only ones that don’t.


For the sake of accuracy, it's probably worth clarifying that pretty much all recorded BBC shows have VT clocks, they are just not used at the top of live shows.

Similar sort of idea at BT Sport - live programmes should start with pictures, e.g. first frame of the opening titles or a live shot.
harshy, denton and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
BL
bluecortina
Do programmes on the BBC clean feed have VT clocks or just sit on a freeze frame of early vision? I guess hitting take early is much easier with a clock


Live BBC shows, or shows that are pre-recorded but played in remotely. are not allowed to run from VT clocks, they have to run from pictures (though most will start with a second or so of 'early vision'). ISTR that the 'no running from clocks' rule was introduced 15+ years ago when too many clocks were being cut to air... (Well it was one way of solving the problem)

(VT Inserts into shows can run from clocks, last frame slate, first frame pictures etc., as that is up to the production team making the show)


That made me chuckle.
GE
thegeek Founding member
Similar sort of idea at BT Sport - live programmes should start with pictures, e.g. first frame of the opening titles or a live shot.

Which is great as long as the first frame of your opening titles isn't almost entirely black. Thanks, UEFA.
IS
Inspector Sands
Do programmes on the BBC clean feed have VT clocks or just sit on a freeze frame of early vision? I guess hitting take early is much easier with a clock

On the clean it goes from the BBC logo animation to the first frame of the programme, but it appears a few seconds before it starts.
CO
commseng
The Six Nations opening freeze frame was one of black a few years ago, before a flame leapt across the screen.
I hated it sitting there just black and silence on the outgoing links for a few minutes before we went on air.
At least in the completely analogue days you'd have been alerted to the link failing by analogue noise on vision and sound......
RK
Rkolsen

Yep. You get used to hitting Take 3 seconds before the end of certain theme tunes, if you want to come out of the programme without hanging on the endboard too long.

Crikey. Someone was recently telling me that the market for playout systems ain't what it used to be, and Grass Valley ICE is about as good as it gets - but I'm sure that other broadcasters who use it don't have a three second delay when pressing a 'take next' button. Did the BBC procure a particularly low-budget version?


I seem to remember someone telling me that UTV, when using Morpheus (GV ICE) in their new Belfast play-out facility before it moved to England, actually had a 5 second delay! They had cleanish feeds to work off, so it wasn't too bad for them.

I can't honestly remember the exact reason for the delays in the Morpheus system... but it's not to do with cut price versions... I think it might be more a side effect of having additional functionality. There's also an additional complication for the network announcers, who have to start speaking a few seconds early in order to stop speaking a few seconds early... their voice is delayed. If they didn't do that, and only stopped speaking just before the programme started... the delay would result in their voice crashing in over the top of the programme. Luckily the Nations announcers don't have that setup.

I have to ask who at Grass Valley thought that was acceptable? I realize master control switching is designed to be more redundant and smaller than regular switchers used for news and sport which may have a few frame delay when cutting sources.

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