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Tommy Cooper's Death

(January 2010)

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BR
breakingnews
It's not as shocking as people are making it out to be. I've seen far worse on the internet.


I suppose you're one of these people who excitedly looked up the ken bigly footage


How'd you know!

Na, I just don't get the big deal.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
It's not as shocking as people are making it out to be. I've seen far worse on the internet.


I suppose you're one of these people who excitedly looked up the ken bigly footage


How'd you know!

Na, I just don't get the big deal.


What are you a psychopath?
MA
Markymark
The effect you talk about was always very much an LWT thing I think. It was present on a lot of their entertainment productions. The camera or the lighting?


I've not watched the clip, nor do I wish to, but I think the effect you refer to might be the characteristic quality that Marconi Mk9 cameras had. They were used by LWT and many other ITV companies for much of the 80s. Difficult to describe, but very obvious, even when seen through multiple VHS dubbing generations.


Yes, here are some other examples, which don't contain any unsettling subjects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEixPFg48Ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SNoT5NNGgw

The best way to describe it I guess, is rather dull colour, vivid detail in movement but slightly as if there's vasaline on the lens.


Yep, Mk9s !!! Looked awful. ITN, TV-am Anglia, Granada, STV, C4 Charlotte St, HTV Pontcanna, and TVS Northam also used them.
The TVS projects dept actually redesigned and rebuilt the offending section of electronics within the camera (the head amps I think) on their kit at Southampton. Certainly the pictures from theirs were far better than the rest of the network's.

Marconi were so desperate to get the Mk9 into the BBC, they had to virtually give them away free. They ended up only in use at a studio at Glasgow. I believe they didn't last long there, and were redeployed on an OB truck. I saw them in use by a Beeb OB at a Falklands homecoming event in Portsmouth in 82. Awful cameras I'm told by colleagues who worked on them.
Last edited by Markymark on 25 January 2010 1:35pm
FR
Freddd
I hate to ask this but it's on the subject of "what to do if..." but you can see Tommy is moving very slowly before they cut to the break - would this have been his own doing or some sort of involuntary motion caused by the attack?

Hard to say. Probably a bit of each, but maybe more of the latter than the former. He was probably unconscious (to all intents and purposes) almost as soon as he slumped down.
TR
trivialmatters
How do you work that one out?
He was at a theatre in the centre of London. There were plenty of people around to provide medical assistance and there would have been at least one first aider there. Her Majesty's is also less than a mile from one of London's biggest hospitals (St Thomas')... if he didn't survive a massive heart attack there he certainly wouldn't if he'd have somewhere else, his home for example.


Did you watch the video clip? Because people thought it was part of the act, nobody attended to him for ages. He lay there choking on his own body fluids. If it had happened backstage, a first aider may have been straight to him.
RV
RegionalVariation
Plenty of well-balanced, and at times, compassionate discussion here. I'm glad the thread was allowed to grow in the safe hands of the tvforum members.

As a medical student I'd like to mention further some points raised in this thread, stressing the important, and intending not to disrupt the discussion about the presentation of television that night.

Sometimes people suffer catastrophic heart attacks (myocardial infarctions). Sometimes, most sadly, there is no medical input that can help. This appears to have been one of these occasions.

More often, heart attacks are evolving events that occur over minutes. The patient will usually experience a dull pain - ranging in severity from severe to mimicing indigestion - behind the breastbone, which can spread to the arms. The pain results from the heart muscle being starved of oxygen, usually because one of the blood vessels supplying it has become blocked. The patient may sweat or vomit, but not always. Usually, the patient will remain conscious but impaired, because of the pain and loss of function of the heart.

In Tommy Cooper's case, his sudden collapse and evidence of breathing problems points to a more major event. More commonly, and quite unlike their usual televisual portrayal with groaning and falling, heart attacks mostly feature a persistent, dull pain in the chest.

The mantra for us to remember is 'time is heart muscle'. The longer without treatment, the more heart muscle is lost because it has become starved of oxygen. This heart muscle lost cannot be repaired. I'd urge anyone with chest pain lasting more than a few minutes to get themselves checked out at casualty. You are putting no-one out. There are numerous causes of chest pain, but ruling out the most serious, promptly, is very sensible.

An important misconception for me to stress is 'heart attack' does not equal 'cardiac arrest'. Heart attack is lack of oxygen to the heart, causing heart muscle damage. Cardiac arrest is the stopping of the normal beating of the heart - most commonly as a consequence of a heart attack, but, reassurringly, is a feature in the minority of heart attacks.

As good citizens, friends and work colleagues, we can do our bit by urging those complaining of chest pain lasting more than a few minutes to get themselves checked out at hospital.

People found on the floor, not breathing and without a pulse, have developed cardiac arrest and need intensive CPR - chest pumping, mouth to mouth breathing - until help arrives. I'd urge any forum members without these life-saving skills to consider learning them.
Last edited by RegionalVariation on 25 January 2010 12:40pm - 3 times in total
BR
breakingnews
It's not as shocking as people are making it out to be. I've seen far worse on the internet.


I suppose you're one of these people who excitedly looked up the ken bigly footage


How'd you know!

Na, I just don't get the big deal.


What are you a psychopath?




Just not as sensitive as others maybe! Get over it.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
Just not as sensitive as others maybe! Get over it.


Don't speak to me.
IS
Inspector Sands

Did you watch the video clip? Because people thought it was part of the act, nobody attended to him for ages. He lay there choking on his own body fluids. If it had happened backstage, a first aider may have been straight to him.

I've seen it loads of times and it wasn't long between collapsing and him disappearing from view where he got help.

He was still a lot nearer to help than he would have been if not at the theatre at all.... not that anything could have saved him it seems
LL
Larry the Loafer

Did you watch the video clip? Because people thought it was part of the act, nobody attended to him for ages. He lay there choking on his own body fluids. If it had happened backstage, a first aider may have been straight to him.

I've seen it loads of times and it wasn't long between collapsing and him disappearing from view where he got help.

He was still a lot nearer to help than he would have been if not at the theatre at all.... not that anything could have saved him it seems


Apparently he felt frail before the show, but I think in the style of Eric Morecambe, he didn't want to let an audience down - it was him that stopped the chance of him being saved.
FR
Freddd
He was expressly told not to do the show by both his doctor and his son. The new, longer clip certainly makes it clear that he's not in rude health.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
There happens to be a Tommy Cooper special at 6.40 this evening on GOLD.

A nicer lasting image of a terrific entertainer after this thread.

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