BR
More than once. I'm sure some people leave it just to make themselves feel thinner!
I bet every one of us here has gone round to the home of a friend or relative and optimised their set for them, as they've unwittingly left it in fattyvision or somesuch,.
More than once. I'm sure some people leave it just to make themselves feel thinner!
CH
It was just an example of how such a large portion of the screen can't be utilised at the moment in channel, news and sports presentation.
That's their own stupid fault.
Yeah that and the fact it would look awful now. We is not in 1995 any more, just something you're going to have to except.
It was just an example of how such a large portion of the screen can't be utilised at the moment in channel, news and sports presentation.
Yes and the fact there are a load of people watching TV on their 42 inch plasmas in 4:3 mode.
That's their own stupid fault.
Last edited by Chie on 5 November 2009 10:33pm
NG
noggin
Founding member
Whilst SD set top boxes are delivered with 4:3 centre cut as the default mode I think 4:3 safe is likely to remain an issue... (Almost universally boxes ARE delivered in that mode)
If the boxes were delivered defaulted to 16:9 or letterbox output then perhaps it would be a different issue.
In the US where they've switched analogue off they have the same problem. Even though HD broadcasts are universally 16:9 - they now make most stuff 4:3 safe because their SD set top boxes are also still used with 4:3 centre cut.
Also - the comparison with NICAM stereo is an interesting one. Mono compatibility IS still enforced - all broadcasters enforce the equivalent of 4:3-safe for sound - which is ensuring that the phase difference on programme material is not ridiculous (usually that the S component is less than the M component)
If you broadcast material with heavy S content and low M content it will sound OK (a bit odd) in stereo, but will sound nearly silent in mono... If you broadcast stuff that is entirely out of phase - you'll hear it in stereo but will get total silence in mono.
If the boxes were delivered defaulted to 16:9 or letterbox output then perhaps it would be a different issue.
In the US where they've switched analogue off they have the same problem. Even though HD broadcasts are universally 16:9 - they now make most stuff 4:3 safe because their SD set top boxes are also still used with 4:3 centre cut.
Also - the comparison with NICAM stereo is an interesting one. Mono compatibility IS still enforced - all broadcasters enforce the equivalent of 4:3-safe for sound - which is ensuring that the phase difference on programme material is not ridiculous (usually that the S component is less than the M component)
If you broadcast material with heavy S content and low M content it will sound OK (a bit odd) in stereo, but will sound nearly silent in mono... If you broadcast stuff that is entirely out of phase - you'll hear it in stereo but will get total silence in mono.
OV
It's not just the Nordic countries, it's the same practice in Belgium and Germany. The difference is the old analogue broadcasts were shown full letterbox there (16:9 in a 4:3 frame), same as the terrestrials do here for films, possibly as PALplus broadcasts. Also, all their digital televisions/STBs support AFD, allowing the broadcasters to force full letterbox on 4:3 TVs, same as the broadcasters use here on Freeview (and I believe Cable and Freesat) to force 14:9 or 16:9 display.
I believe the big issue here is for whatever reason AFD support was never added to the Sky boxes, requiring the broadcasts to be 4:3 safe. As widescreen TV usage has increased the major broadcasters with the exception of the BBC seem to have ignored this and now work to 14:9 safe as displayed on analogue and Freeview. There finally seems to be a slow move to use the full 16:9 frame, with UKTV being the best example, and I expect after DSO the terrestrials will be inclined to go the same way given the large numbers of 4:3 viewers simply getting new TVs for switchover and the AFD functionality on Freeview STBs. I've also seen a CBBC promo for Sarah Jane using the full frame, whether this was a mistake or intentional I don't know but it would be good to see the BBC finally ditching 4:3 safe areas.
As for educating viewers I don't think it helps that many STB manufacturers have complicated the menus and the instructions. The problem I find is most people don't know what 4:3 or 16:9 is and leave the settings alone, whereas if the manufacturers labled it as TV Type with options like 'standard' and 'widescreen', and clearly described the difference in the manual, more people would have the right settings. Sky haven't helped by using 4:3L and not documenting it anywhere. On the note of Sky I find a lot of the installers also get it wrong (or used to anyway) using only the recommended setting by Sky. When we had Sky+ installed the installer changed it from 4:3 to 4:3L, on a widescreen TV, and left it that way even though when he was trying out the channels it was clearly wrong.
I believe the big issue here is for whatever reason AFD support was never added to the Sky boxes, requiring the broadcasts to be 4:3 safe. As widescreen TV usage has increased the major broadcasters with the exception of the BBC seem to have ignored this and now work to 14:9 safe as displayed on analogue and Freeview. There finally seems to be a slow move to use the full 16:9 frame, with UKTV being the best example, and I expect after DSO the terrestrials will be inclined to go the same way given the large numbers of 4:3 viewers simply getting new TVs for switchover and the AFD functionality on Freeview STBs. I've also seen a CBBC promo for Sarah Jane using the full frame, whether this was a mistake or intentional I don't know but it would be good to see the BBC finally ditching 4:3 safe areas.
As for educating viewers I don't think it helps that many STB manufacturers have complicated the menus and the instructions. The problem I find is most people don't know what 4:3 or 16:9 is and leave the settings alone, whereas if the manufacturers labled it as TV Type with options like 'standard' and 'widescreen', and clearly described the difference in the manual, more people would have the right settings. Sky haven't helped by using 4:3L and not documenting it anywhere. On the note of Sky I find a lot of the installers also get it wrong (or used to anyway) using only the recommended setting by Sky. When we had Sky+ installed the installer changed it from 4:3 to 4:3L, on a widescreen TV, and left it that way even though when he was trying out the channels it was clearly wrong.