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Updates and info on the DTT platform (October 2016)

DA
Davidjb Founding member Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
BBC Regional News on BBC One HD is long overdue. Will be great when it has all switched over.

Though it's worth remembering that they took a good few years until BBC 1 digital had them on all platforms.


As I understand it, regions on HD aren't that far away as there's big technical changes and upgrades happening. But there's been no announcement or timetable


It took far too long for the regions to be available on Digital tv in my opinion. Hard to compare it with these days though as most people certainly upgrade their technology faster than they did back in the late 90's or early 00's and smartphones/tablets have significantly changed how we consume television. I'm surprised we cant get HD regional news on the iPlayer at least by now. Even a HD live stream of BBC One & Two would be good.
LL
London Lite Recently warned London London

. I'm surprised we cant get HD regional news on the iPlayer at least by now. Even a HD live stream of BBC One & Two would be good.


There are 720p HD live streams for BBC One HD Scotland, NI, Wales and England. However, the England version I can't find on my connected TV or Now TV Smart Box. It is on my desktop and on Kodi using the various iPlayer add-ons.

However I agree that there should be at least 720p catch-up bulletins for the Nations and also those English regions which are outputting in HD, then downscaling to SD such as London and the North West. (BBC London is already in 1080i during Breakfast on the NC when sign language isn't used).
DA
Davidjb Founding member Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)

. I'm surprised we cant get HD regional news on the iPlayer at least by now. Even a HD live stream of BBC One & Two would be good.


There are 720p HD live streams for BBC One HD Scotland, NI, Wales and England. However, the England version I can't find on my connected TV or Now TV Smart Box. It is on my desktop and on Kodi using the various iPlayer add-ons.


720p isn't proper HD, it's just slightly better SD in my opinion. When you get used to watching tv at 1080p you notice the difference of anything less straight away.
LL
London Lite Recently warned London London

. I'm surprised we cant get HD regional news on the iPlayer at least by now. Even a HD live stream of BBC One & Two would be good.


There are 720p HD live streams for BBC One HD Scotland, NI, Wales and England. However, the England version I can't find on my connected TV or Now TV Smart Box. It is on my desktop and on Kodi using the various iPlayer add-ons.


720p isn't proper HD, it's just slightly better SD in my opinion. When you get used to watching tv at 1080p you notice the difference of anything less straight away.


It's still classed as HD. Compared to 576i or the 480p iPlayer streams, it's still a big improvement
DA
Davidjb Founding member Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)

There are 720p HD live streams for BBC One HD Scotland, NI, Wales and England. However, the England version I can't find on my connected TV or Now TV Smart Box. It is on my desktop and on Kodi using the various iPlayer add-ons.


720p isn't proper HD, it's just slightly better SD in my opinion. When you get used to watching tv at 1080p you notice the difference of anything less straight away.


It's still classed as HD. Compared to 576i or the 480p iPlayer streams, it's still a big improvement


It is an improvement sure, but it's still slow progress. It can't be that hard to run/offer a full HD live stream can it?
IS
Inspector Sands

It took far too long for the regions to be available on Digital tv in my opinion. Hard to compare it with these days though as most people certainly upgrade their technology faster than they did back in the late 90's or early 00's and smartphones/tablets have significantly changed how we consume television.

Going from analogue to digital was a much bigger shift than SD to HD. Back then it was doing things that have always been done that way with something totally new. That and the platforms used to broadcast were in their infancy and no-one knew how what form digital TV was going to take in the long term.

With HD it's more a case of just upgrading what's there - everything's digital, it just needs to be a different type of digital! The issue is more that they have to duplicate or replace infrastructure that in some cases is only a few years old
OV
Orry Verducci Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
It is an improvement sure, but it's still slow progress. It can't be that hard to run/offer a full HD live stream can it?

It's not a matter of how hard it is, it's a matter of cost.


They could easily tell the encoders to use 1080 tomorrow if they wanted to, but they would also have to increase the bitrate to accomodate the higher resolution without degrading the picture quality. Doing so uses more bandwidth, which the content delivery networks charge more for. That would mean they need a larger portion of TV license funds to operate the service, which isn't an option.

I remember reading a blog post not long back on the BBC website explaining the introduction of 50 frames per second streams, and it stated that they had considered switching to 1080 instead. However they found that viewers saw a greater jump in picture quality by changing from 25 to 50 fps compared to increasing the resolution, so that's what they went with.

I quite often watch iPlayer's 720p50 streams on Chromecast on my TV, and I only see a small difference between that and the Freeview HD channels - and I'm someone who's really fussy about picture quality.
JA
james-2001 Central (East) East Midlands Today
I remember reading a blog post not long back on the BBC website explaining the introduction of 50 frames per second streams, and it stated that they had considered switching to 1080 instead. However they found that viewers saw a greater jump in picture quality by changing from 25 to 50 fps compared to increasing the resolution, so that's what they went with.


If only the people making the shows felt that way, rather than sticking a 25p film look on everything these days.
DA
Davidjb Founding member Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)

It took far too long for the regions to be available on Digital tv in my opinion. Hard to compare it with these days though as most people certainly upgrade their technology faster than they did back in the late 90's or early 00's and smartphones/tablets have significantly changed how we consume television.

Going from analogue to digital was a much bigger shift than SD to HD. Back then it was doing things that have always been done that way with something totally new. That and the platforms used to broadcast were in their infancy and no-one knew how what form digital TV was going to take in the long term.

With HD it's more a case of just upgrading what's there - everything's digital, it just needs to be a different type of digital! The issue is more that they have to duplicate or replace infrastructure that in some cases is only a few years old


The ball is almost on the other foot these days. When digital tv launched, broadcasters were firmly ahead of the viewers in terms of technology, these days I think viewers are ahead of the broadcasters to some degree (I.e. Can view 4K but it's not offered by broadcasters).
JA
james-2001 Central (East) East Midlands Today
Also when it comes to 720p vs 1080i, does the fact that each field of 1080i is actually only 540 lines have some sort of effect on percieved quality, especially when there's movement? When you convert 1080i to 720p, aren't you effectively scaling 540 up to 720 so not actually losing any vertical resolution (though of course reducing the 1920 or 1440 horizontal resultion down to 1280)?
Last edited by james-2001 on 27 October 2016 12:26am
RE
Rex London London
Also when it comes to 720p vs 1080i, does the fact that each field of 1080i is actually only 540 lines have some sort of effect on percieved quality, especially when there's movement? When you convert 1080i to 720p, aren't you effectively scaling 540 up to 720 so not actually losing any vertical resolution (though of course reducing the 1920 or 1440 horizontal resultion down to 1280)?

1080i is interlaced resolution, which doesn't bode well especially with fast paced images. It creates a blurred effect that smears the screen.

720p has a less refined image but can hold its own with a consistent progressive resolution.
REEEEEEEEE
RK
Rkolsen World News
Also when it comes to 720p vs 1080i, does the fact that each field of 1080i is actually only 540 lines have some sort of effect on percieved quality, especially when there's movement? When you convert 1080i to 720p, aren't you effectively scaling 540 up to 720 so not actually losing any vertical resolution (though of course reducing the 1920 or 1440 horizontal resultion down to 1280)?

1080i is interlaced resolution, which doesn't bode well especially with fast paced images. It creates a blurred effect that smears the screen.

720p has a less refined image but can hold its own with a consistent progressive resolution.


I never really bought that whole argument about 1080i handling fast paced images. On my tv there is no blur when it comes to fast moving images such as an NFL, Premiere League or even NASCAR (if you want fast moving images).

I imagine 1080i did blur in the beginning but as US stations upgrade to second and third generation encoders that they will be able to handle blurred images.
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