LL
I think it may do what The Simpsons did, run non-stop, then people got bored of it.
NG
You know the way in older american shows, when somebody moved, the person (or picture) became blurry, or they just didn't look right, and in BBC sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, it look like the quality filmed with a camcorder.
Doctor Who has the way they didn't look right, they all seem to have a slower motion. I know it's hard to explain
I think what you are seeing is the "film effect" that has been added in post-production to the latest series of Dr Who. It is pretty common - and gives it the slightly juddery motion of programmes shot on film. Heartbeat and Cardiac Arrest were the two shows that first started to use it - and it is pretty widespread these days. (The location reports on Top Gear are flickered in the same way for example)
Originally US high-quality soaps (Dallas, Dynasty) in the early-to-mid 80s were shot on 35mm film, and edited on film. They could then be transferred to European standard video tape and looked really good. (They had the same kind of judder - but looked really sharp and glossy)
In the mid-to-late 80s most US series moved to shooting on film, but editing on US standard videotape. This meant that in the UK we saw a "standards converted" version of the show.
The US TV standard is based on 60 fields (or "half-pictures") a second, whilst the European system is based on 50 fields per second. The US system has 480 active lines (out of a total of 525). The European system has 576 active lines (out of a total of 625)
Converting between the two requires all sorts of major processing - and in the 80s this wasn't that sophisticated (though it was a hell of a lot better than the 60s when they just pointed a camera at a monitor, and the 70s when they had VERY basic electronic converters) You basically had a choice between sharp juddery pictures, or blurry smooth motion - and most converters tried to guess which was best based on how much movement there was in the scenes going through the converter. This worked OK-ish (well OK it was still pretty bad - but just about acceptable) for sports and most video material (well as OK as it could be) - which was shot on 60 fields video.
However film in the US is shot at 24 frames per second. If you get a film copy (as was the case with US soaps in the early 80s) then you just play this at 25 frames per second and show each film frame on two fields.
However in the US they have to convert 24 frames to 60 fields - which isn't as easy. To do this they show one film frame for 3 of their 60 fields, and the next frame for 2 fields. This creates quite a nasty judder effect - but most Americans seem to be used to it.
However when US soaps shot on film started editing on video tape, and they then tried to convert this juddery 60 field video to 50 field video via a normal standards converter it looked really, really, really bad...
This happened to Dallas, and the BBC were deluged with complaints...
Eventually a clever solution was found - that detected the 3rd field and removed it, and thus got rid of the judder.
Not sure what your comment about sitcoms relates to. There was a period where shows like My Hero and My Family were "film flickered" - though this seems to be less popular than it once was?
noggin
Founding member
Larry the Loafer posted:
You know the way in older american shows, when somebody moved, the person (or picture) became blurry, or they just didn't look right, and in BBC sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, it look like the quality filmed with a camcorder.
Doctor Who has the way they didn't look right, they all seem to have a slower motion. I know it's hard to explain
I think what you are seeing is the "film effect" that has been added in post-production to the latest series of Dr Who. It is pretty common - and gives it the slightly juddery motion of programmes shot on film. Heartbeat and Cardiac Arrest were the two shows that first started to use it - and it is pretty widespread these days. (The location reports on Top Gear are flickered in the same way for example)
Originally US high-quality soaps (Dallas, Dynasty) in the early-to-mid 80s were shot on 35mm film, and edited on film. They could then be transferred to European standard video tape and looked really good. (They had the same kind of judder - but looked really sharp and glossy)
In the mid-to-late 80s most US series moved to shooting on film, but editing on US standard videotape. This meant that in the UK we saw a "standards converted" version of the show.
The US TV standard is based on 60 fields (or "half-pictures") a second, whilst the European system is based on 50 fields per second. The US system has 480 active lines (out of a total of 525). The European system has 576 active lines (out of a total of 625)
Converting between the two requires all sorts of major processing - and in the 80s this wasn't that sophisticated (though it was a hell of a lot better than the 60s when they just pointed a camera at a monitor, and the 70s when they had VERY basic electronic converters) You basically had a choice between sharp juddery pictures, or blurry smooth motion - and most converters tried to guess which was best based on how much movement there was in the scenes going through the converter. This worked OK-ish (well OK it was still pretty bad - but just about acceptable) for sports and most video material (well as OK as it could be) - which was shot on 60 fields video.
However film in the US is shot at 24 frames per second. If you get a film copy (as was the case with US soaps in the early 80s) then you just play this at 25 frames per second and show each film frame on two fields.
However in the US they have to convert 24 frames to 60 fields - which isn't as easy. To do this they show one film frame for 3 of their 60 fields, and the next frame for 2 fields. This creates quite a nasty judder effect - but most Americans seem to be used to it.
However when US soaps shot on film started editing on video tape, and they then tried to convert this juddery 60 field video to 50 field video via a normal standards converter it looked really, really, really bad...
This happened to Dallas, and the BBC were deluged with complaints...
Eventually a clever solution was found - that detected the 3rd field and removed it, and thus got rid of the judder.
Not sure what your comment about sitcoms relates to. There was a period where shows like My Hero and My Family were "film flickered" - though this seems to be less popular than it once was?
LI
Saturday Night TV died the second Digital was availiable. We used to only have 4 main channels, and variety was at hand... but now that we have genre specific channels (UKtv Gold, Challenge, etc.) Channels 1 to 4 can't be that way anymore... when they should be!
I say bring back Noel's House Party!
I say bring back Noel's House Party!
PT
Noel's House Party is dated. However, as much as Noel Edmonds is a big girls blouse and multi-millionaire maker - I say he returns to Saturday night TV.
MD
I think Noel Edmonds is a fantastic broadcaster and live TV comes natural to him. Maybe the BBC could offer him a Saturday night game show?
nok32uk posted:
Noel's House Party is dated. However, as much as Noel Edmonds is a big girls blouse and multi-millionaire maker - I say he returns to Saturday night TV.
I think Noel Edmonds is a fantastic broadcaster and live TV comes natural to him. Maybe the BBC could offer him a Saturday night game show?
GS
I remember reading an article in Los Angeles in 1985 explaining how US programmes (notably Dallas and Cheers) looked "better" on UK television than it did on US television - for precicely the reasons you just stated.
Was the telecine transfer not done in the UK? I remember when the "Who shot JR" Dallas episodes were delivered to the UK they arrived as film cans.
Gavin Scott
Founding member
noggin posted:
Originally US high-quality soaps (Dallas, Dynasty) in the early-to-mid 80s were shot on 35mm film, and edited on film. They could then be transferred to European standard video tape and looked really good. (They had the same kind of judder - but looked really sharp and glossy)
I remember reading an article in Los Angeles in 1985 explaining how US programmes (notably Dallas and Cheers) looked "better" on UK television than it did on US television - for precicely the reasons you just stated.
Was the telecine transfer not done in the UK? I remember when the "Who shot JR" Dallas episodes were delivered to the UK they arrived as film cans.
WI
Big Brother?! Now stop right there!
Despite what you may think, Big Brother is good television. It regularly draws in high ratings for Channel 4 and has been going for 6 years now. Just a shame it's been tarnished with the same brush as 'The Farm' and 'Celebrity Love Island'.
Why is Big Brother good television? How would you feel if you forced to watch your family members for continuous lengths of time sleeping, s**tting, sha**ing, yawning, washing dishes, filing nails, bickering, etc. You'd hate it!!! But on Big Brother it is cool to watch tedious people doing exactly I've described!! Television at its tackiest, cheapest, unimaginative, and crappiest ever!!! That's entertainment..........not!!!!
jay posted:
Joe Havard posted:
jay posted:
There is now more choice than ever before: about 5 different streams of Live 8 concerts, new breath-taking programmes such as Doctor Who, Little Britain, Big Brother and loads more...
Big Brother?! Now stop right there!
Despite what you may think, Big Brother is good television. It regularly draws in high ratings for Channel 4 and has been going for 6 years now. Just a shame it's been tarnished with the same brush as 'The Farm' and 'Celebrity Love Island'.
Why is Big Brother good television? How would you feel if you forced to watch your family members for continuous lengths of time sleeping, s**tting, sha**ing, yawning, washing dishes, filing nails, bickering, etc. You'd hate it!!! But on Big Brother it is cool to watch tedious people doing exactly I've described!! Television at its tackiest, cheapest, unimaginative, and crappiest ever!!! That's entertainment..........not!!!!
ST
Now, "Telly Like It Used To Be..." (see someone watches Challenge)!
Ideal schedule:
0600 No. 73 (TVS)
0900 Challenge Aneika (BBC)
1000 You Bet! (LWTP)
1100 The Moment Of Truth (LWTP)
1145 Bullseye (Central)
1215 The Krypton Factor (Granada)
1300 Beadle's About (LWTP)
1400 The Bill (Thames)
1500 Treasure Hunt (Chatsworth TV for Ch4)
1530 Treasure Hunt (Edemol UK for BBC)
1600 The ITV Chart Show (LNN/TWI)
1630 Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway (Granada)
1730 The Paul O'Grady Show (Granada)
1830 Lily Savage's Blankety Blank (Pearson)
1900 Home and Away (Network 7)
1930 Coronation Street (Granada)
2000 Byker Grove (Zenith North for CBBC)
2030 It'll Be Alright On The Night (LWTP)
2100 Blind Date (LWTP)
2130 Doctor Who (BBC Wales)
2213 Winning Lotto Result (BBC)
2215 TV's Naughtiest Blunders (Carlton)
2315 Newyddion (BBC Cymru y S4C)
2330 Queer as Folk (Red for Channel 4)
0030 Booze Britain (UMTV for Flextech/Bravo)
0100 Classic Who Wants To Be A Millionaire (Celador for ITV)
0130 ITV Telethon's Best Bits (ITV)
0200 Night and Day (Carlton)
0230 Eldorado (BBC)
0300 EastEnders (BBC)
0330 Win, Lose or Draw (Central)
0400 Dale's Supermarket Sweep (Central)
0430 So, Graham Norton (So for Channel 4)
0500 GMTV Today (GMTV)
Not a bad line up,???????????
Ideal schedule:
0600 No. 73 (TVS)
0900 Challenge Aneika (BBC)
1000 You Bet! (LWTP)
1100 The Moment Of Truth (LWTP)
1145 Bullseye (Central)
1215 The Krypton Factor (Granada)
1300 Beadle's About (LWTP)
1400 The Bill (Thames)
1500 Treasure Hunt (Chatsworth TV for Ch4)
1530 Treasure Hunt (Edemol UK for BBC)
1600 The ITV Chart Show (LNN/TWI)
1630 Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway (Granada)
1730 The Paul O'Grady Show (Granada)
1830 Lily Savage's Blankety Blank (Pearson)
1900 Home and Away (Network 7)
1930 Coronation Street (Granada)
2000 Byker Grove (Zenith North for CBBC)
2030 It'll Be Alright On The Night (LWTP)
2100 Blind Date (LWTP)
2130 Doctor Who (BBC Wales)
2213 Winning Lotto Result (BBC)
2215 TV's Naughtiest Blunders (Carlton)
2315 Newyddion (BBC Cymru y S4C)
2330 Queer as Folk (Red for Channel 4)
0030 Booze Britain (UMTV for Flextech/Bravo)
0100 Classic Who Wants To Be A Millionaire (Celador for ITV)
0130 ITV Telethon's Best Bits (ITV)
0200 Night and Day (Carlton)
0230 Eldorado (BBC)
0300 EastEnders (BBC)
0330 Win, Lose or Draw (Central)
0400 Dale's Supermarket Sweep (Central)
0430 So, Graham Norton (So for Channel 4)
0500 GMTV Today (GMTV)
Not a bad line up,???????????
LL
Perfect!!!
steddenm posted:
Now, "Telly Like It Used To Be..." (see someone watches Challenge)!
Ideal schedule:
0600 No. 73 (TVS)
0900 Challenge Aneika (BBC)
1000 You Bet! (LWTP)
1100 The Moment Of Truth (LWTP)
1145 Bullseye (Central)
1215 The Krypton Factor (Granada)
1300 Beadle's About (LWTP)
1400 The Bill (Thames)
1500 Treasure Hunt (Chatsworth TV for Ch4)
1530 Treasure Hunt (Edemol UK for BBC)
1600 The ITV Chart Show (LNN/TWI)
1630 Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway (Granada)
1730 The Paul O'Grady Show (Granada)
1830 Lily Savage's Blankety Blank (Pearson)
1900 Home and Away (Network 7)
1930 Coronation Street (Granada)
2000 Byker Grove (Zenith North for CBBC)
2030 It'll Be Alright On The Night (LWTP)
2100 Blind Date (LWTP)
2130 Doctor Who (BBC Wales)
2213 Winning Lotto Result (BBC)
2215 TV's Naughtiest Blunders (Carlton)
2315 Newyddion (BBC Cymru y S4C)
2330 Queer as Folk (Red for Channel 4)
0030 Booze Britain (UMTV for Flextech/Bravo)
0100 Classic Who Wants To Be A Millionaire (Celador for ITV)
0130 ITV Telethon's Best Bits (ITV)
0200 Night and Day (Carlton)
0230 Eldorado (BBC)
0300 EastEnders (BBC)
0330 Win, Lose or Draw (Central)
0400 Dale's Supermarket Sweep (Central)
0430 So, Graham Norton (So for Channel 4)
0500 GMTV Today (GMTV)
Not a bad line up,???????????
Ideal schedule:
0600 No. 73 (TVS)
0900 Challenge Aneika (BBC)
1000 You Bet! (LWTP)
1100 The Moment Of Truth (LWTP)
1145 Bullseye (Central)
1215 The Krypton Factor (Granada)
1300 Beadle's About (LWTP)
1400 The Bill (Thames)
1500 Treasure Hunt (Chatsworth TV for Ch4)
1530 Treasure Hunt (Edemol UK for BBC)
1600 The ITV Chart Show (LNN/TWI)
1630 Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway (Granada)
1730 The Paul O'Grady Show (Granada)
1830 Lily Savage's Blankety Blank (Pearson)
1900 Home and Away (Network 7)
1930 Coronation Street (Granada)
2000 Byker Grove (Zenith North for CBBC)
2030 It'll Be Alright On The Night (LWTP)
2100 Blind Date (LWTP)
2130 Doctor Who (BBC Wales)
2213 Winning Lotto Result (BBC)
2215 TV's Naughtiest Blunders (Carlton)
2315 Newyddion (BBC Cymru y S4C)
2330 Queer as Folk (Red for Channel 4)
0030 Booze Britain (UMTV for Flextech/Bravo)
0100 Classic Who Wants To Be A Millionaire (Celador for ITV)
0130 ITV Telethon's Best Bits (ITV)
0200 Night and Day (Carlton)
0230 Eldorado (BBC)
0300 EastEnders (BBC)
0330 Win, Lose or Draw (Central)
0400 Dale's Supermarket Sweep (Central)
0430 So, Graham Norton (So for Channel 4)
0500 GMTV Today (GMTV)
Not a bad line up,???????????
Perfect!!!