NG
So when Teletext closes down in 2 weeks time, will we just get a black screen when we push our Text buttons on analogue? WHat's the betting that some other company will come along and provide analogue and digital text services before too long?
p888 subtitles will continue, so there will be a basic core service present to deliver that - so you won't get a blank screen. I would expect a page 100 announcing that the service has closed and pointing you to websites etc.
If Racing continues on C4 teletext, and there are other ancillary services that continue, then there will still be a few pages broadcast.
Analogue text services on ITV/C4 aren't likely to be replaced - already a number of regions no longer have them. The reason Teletext are closing is that there are fewer and fewer analogue viewers to watch their service.
Any digital text service on Freeview will have to pay for its capacity, so unless the site generates money (and advertising is no longer enough to pay in this current climate) by offering a betting service, a home shopping operation etc. it won't be cost effective to run.
None of these companies are charities - they have to make money somehow.
noggin
Founding member
So when Teletext closes down in 2 weeks time, will we just get a black screen when we push our Text buttons on analogue? WHat's the betting that some other company will come along and provide analogue and digital text services before too long?
p888 subtitles will continue, so there will be a basic core service present to deliver that - so you won't get a blank screen. I would expect a page 100 announcing that the service has closed and pointing you to websites etc.
If Racing continues on C4 teletext, and there are other ancillary services that continue, then there will still be a few pages broadcast.
Analogue text services on ITV/C4 aren't likely to be replaced - already a number of regions no longer have them. The reason Teletext are closing is that there are fewer and fewer analogue viewers to watch their service.
Any digital text service on Freeview will have to pay for its capacity, so unless the site generates money (and advertising is no longer enough to pay in this current climate) by offering a betting service, a home shopping operation etc. it won't be cost effective to run.
None of these companies are charities - they have to make money somehow.
NG
Not quite sure what the situation is with space on Sky and Cable (is Teletext even on cable?), but interestingly the racing service on Sky will be "analogue" - I assume that's old fashioned Teletext!
Sky Digiboxes support packet based WST - i.e. carrying the same teletext pages in the same format as analogue does, but they are broadcast as a separate digital stream, alongside the video stream and audio streams, not as information embedded in the video stream (which is how analogue works) This is because analogue sends all 625 lines of the TV signal (and teletext is inserted in the blanking lines that don't contain a picture), whilst digital TV sends only the 576 active lines in the video stream (so there is no space for teletext in blanking, and the MPEG compression used for active video would corrupt the text data even if there were).
On Sky boxes the WST data is re-inserted on the analogue SD outputs as of a Sky box as "analogue telext" for your TV to decode (though it will decode the 888 subtitles and burn them into the video). Although teletext has always been digital - because it is associated with our analogue TV system it is referred to as analogue teletext - though this is hardly accurate, particularly when it is delivered by a digital system.
However this doesn't work on the HD outputs - so if you connect a Sky HD box via HDMI you can't decode the "analogue" subtitles AIUI. Non-Sky satellite receivers often have teletext display functions built in - and these will embed the teletext pages on their HDMI output - and you use the satellite remote control, not your TV remote control, to display them. (The same way you access digital text on Sky)
The BBC used to broadcast a near-full CEEFAX service on BBC One and Two on digital satellite, then switched it off entirely (apart from subtitles), but then re-introduced a basic service - mainly for viewers on cable in the Benelux countries I believe (who don't get the Press Red digital text service) who wanted listings - and recipes?
Freeview in the UK doesn't support WST - only MHEG5 (the more advanced digital text system) - but in other countries - Sweden, Germany etc. - WST (i.e. analogue teletext) is used on their digital terrestrial services. When I was in Sweden I had no problems getting SVT's teletext service on my Mac with a DVB-T USB stick. Very strange watching an HD broadcast with 40x25 blocky 70s text!
noggin
Founding member
Not quite sure what the situation is with space on Sky and Cable (is Teletext even on cable?), but interestingly the racing service on Sky will be "analogue" - I assume that's old fashioned Teletext!
Sky Digiboxes support packet based WST - i.e. carrying the same teletext pages in the same format as analogue does, but they are broadcast as a separate digital stream, alongside the video stream and audio streams, not as information embedded in the video stream (which is how analogue works) This is because analogue sends all 625 lines of the TV signal (and teletext is inserted in the blanking lines that don't contain a picture), whilst digital TV sends only the 576 active lines in the video stream (so there is no space for teletext in blanking, and the MPEG compression used for active video would corrupt the text data even if there were).
On Sky boxes the WST data is re-inserted on the analogue SD outputs as of a Sky box as "analogue telext" for your TV to decode (though it will decode the 888 subtitles and burn them into the video). Although teletext has always been digital - because it is associated with our analogue TV system it is referred to as analogue teletext - though this is hardly accurate, particularly when it is delivered by a digital system.
However this doesn't work on the HD outputs - so if you connect a Sky HD box via HDMI you can't decode the "analogue" subtitles AIUI. Non-Sky satellite receivers often have teletext display functions built in - and these will embed the teletext pages on their HDMI output - and you use the satellite remote control, not your TV remote control, to display them. (The same way you access digital text on Sky)
The BBC used to broadcast a near-full CEEFAX service on BBC One and Two on digital satellite, then switched it off entirely (apart from subtitles), but then re-introduced a basic service - mainly for viewers on cable in the Benelux countries I believe (who don't get the Press Red digital text service) who wanted listings - and recipes?
Freeview in the UK doesn't support WST - only MHEG5 (the more advanced digital text system) - but in other countries - Sweden, Germany etc. - WST (i.e. analogue teletext) is used on their digital terrestrial services. When I was in Sweden I had no problems getting SVT's teletext service on my Mac with a DVB-T USB stick. Very strange watching an HD broadcast with 40x25 blocky 70s text!
BR
I wonder if we could get something like FourText back - probably not for listings as the old service was pre-Teletext on 4, but just as the front page to things like the betting pages and racing news, and then perhaps if we're lucky other companies coming in to provide a news and sport section.
What is happening to the 3% of space gifted to Teletext - surely they don't get to keep it for the crap that remains when it's gifted on the basis of PSB content. I'd have thought they'd at least be some interest in other companies in providing a text service accessed on ITV and C4, even if they did end up going bust 12 months later.
Any digital text service on Freeview will have to pay for its capacity, so unless the site generates money (and advertising is no longer enough to pay in this current climate) by offering a betting service, a home shopping operation etc. it won't be cost effective to run.
I wonder if we could get something like FourText back - probably not for listings as the old service was pre-Teletext on 4, but just as the front page to things like the betting pages and racing news, and then perhaps if we're lucky other companies coming in to provide a news and sport section.
What is happening to the 3% of space gifted to Teletext - surely they don't get to keep it for the crap that remains when it's gifted on the basis of PSB content. I'd have thought they'd at least be some interest in other companies in providing a text service accessed on ITV and C4, even if they did end up going bust 12 months later.
IS
Yes, cable does/did have teletext on the channels that supplied it. on Telewest the terrestrial channels had teletext on them, presumably they took it off the analogue versions and sent it alongside the digital ones
onDigital boxes did have some sort of teletext capability. It was only used for linking adverts to their internet servcice (you could access the net on their set top boxes) but I do remember reading a report about someone getting some sort of teletext data on ITV2 once
Not quite sure what the situation is with space on Sky and Cable (is Teletext even on cable?),
Yes, cable does/did have teletext on the channels that supplied it. on Telewest the terrestrial channels had teletext on them, presumably they took it off the analogue versions and sent it alongside the digital ones
onDigital boxes did have some sort of teletext capability. It was only used for linking adverts to their internet servcice (you could access the net on their set top boxes) but I do remember reading a report about someone getting some sort of teletext data on ITV2 once
BR
Is NHS Direct and Direct Gov continuing beyond this week, and if so will it still be accessed via ITV & C4 on Freeview anyway.
I'm guessing as Teletext basically say they're closing their news and info pages, rather than closing Teletext, an index might remain to link to those, Teletext Holidays and other useless crap, along with the C4 racing and betting pages.
I'm guessing as Teletext basically say they're closing their news and info pages, rather than closing Teletext, an index might remain to link to those, Teletext Holidays and other useless crap, along with the C4 racing and betting pages.
CY
That's not the reason they gave when they announced the closure! Besides text takes up a tiny amount of space, infintessimal when compared with an HD channel
True but the problem is SD channels are having to be squeezed into the D3&4 mux (it's still only 8, but could rise to 10), so that's where Teletext would suffer.
Not quite sure what the situation is with space on Sky and Cable (is Teletext even on cable?), but interestingly the racing service on Sky will be "analogue" - I assume that's old fashioned Teletext!
Very sad to see the end of Teletext on ITV/Channel 4/Channel 5. And I don't just mean analogue but the digital version disappearing as well. We were told that digital text was wonderful and that the services would be continued there but sadly that is no longer the case.
Sky has a digital teletext service of its own and that will be continuing.
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Teletext blaming their closure on not getting the spectrum space they need - yet another consequence of the Freeview HD bodge job. If it's a choice between Teletext and HD, I know which I choose.
That's not the reason they gave when they announced the closure! Besides text takes up a tiny amount of space, infintessimal when compared with an HD channel
True but the problem is SD channels are having to be squeezed into the D3&4 mux (it's still only 8, but could rise to 10), so that's where Teletext would suffer.
Not quite sure what the situation is with space on Sky and Cable (is Teletext even on cable?), but interestingly the racing service on Sky will be "analogue" - I assume that's old fashioned Teletext!
Very sad to see the end of Teletext on ITV/Channel 4/Channel 5. And I don't just mean analogue but the digital version disappearing as well. We were told that digital text was wonderful and that the services would be continued there but sadly that is no longer the case.
Sky has a digital teletext service of its own and that will be continuing.
CY
And they got the digital version right from day 1. If you want interactive services you press red and for teletext you press text and they kept the text numbers on digital the same as they are on analogue. BBCi just made the whole thing too confusing when they started, it's much better now though.
Indeed SkyText will be my service of choice once Teletext has gone.
And they got the digital version right from day 1. If you want interactive services you press red and for teletext you press text and they kept the text numbers on digital the same as they are on analogue. BBCi just made the whole thing too confusing when they started, it's much better now though.