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Maaixuew
Several years ago I had read on a forum that the archive of former ITV franchise Television South (TVS) was missing. Then it was discovered that the company archive, which had eventually after many takeovers landed with Disney, was still in existence but important documentation surrounding the various materials had been destroyed. This meant even though tapes still existed, documents surrounding rights did not. If this is the case why are Disney, a multi-billion dollar company, unwilling to sort out the matter instead of burying their head in the sand as they are currently.

TVS were most famous for Art Attack, Catchphrase and Fraggle Rock, the latter two currently missing and unable to be released because of this conundrum.

Perhaps somebody could shed some light onto this legal mess.
62305822,409 posts since 19 Aug 2005
STV Central Reporting Scotland
Here we go again Wink Art attact is safe strangely that also ended up in the hands of Disney but by another route. TVS: WHO OWNS IT:

Quote:
In Autumn 1992, a number of American companies were interested in acquiring the company, from the likes of TCW Capital, International Family Entertainment Inc. (IFE) and Lorne Michaels.[35] IFE originally made an bid worth £38.2M[36] and received backing from a number of key shareholders for the bid to be accepted.[37] A small number of shareholders, including Julian Tregar, rejected the offer from IFE. In November, TCW Capital made a counter bid,[38] but pulled out a few weeks later after reviewing the accounts of TVS.[39] IFE increased its offer to £45.3M, but continued to be opposed by Julian Tregar who blocked the deal on technical grounds, as they alleged that the offer was too low.[40][41] IFE finally revised and increased the offer to appease the remaining shareholders,[42][43] on 23 January 1993 IFC offer of £56.5M was finally accepted,[44] with the deal being completed on 1 February 1993. In September 1993, IFE launched a UK version of The Family Channel based at The Maidstone Studios and using some elements of the TVS programme archive. Flextech were a partner in the venture, taking a 39% stake in the business.[45]

In 1996, IFE sold its remaining 61% share to Flextech,[46] giving them full ownership of the venture, and subsequently in February 1997 Flextech rebranded the channel to Challenge TV, focusing mainly on game shows. IFE was sold to Fox Kids Worldwide,[47][48][49] which in turn was acquired by Disney in 2001.[47][50][51]

As a result, most of the TVS archive is controlled by Disney, although much of it is understood to be largely inaccessible due to the paperwork detailing programme contributors, rights agreements, etc., having been lost in the intervening years.[52][53] In 2006, the name "Television South Ltd", "TVS" and the colour logo device were transferred and re-registered at the Trademarks Office to lighting cameraman Keith Jacobsen, and TVS began trading as an independent production company with no links to the previous company. The new TVS company were based in offices at The Maidstone Studios, which had been built by the original TVS company. TVS Television Productions Ltd ceased trading [2] on 9 March 2012.


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Its that paper work that caused all the trouble, it was believe the tapes were in Warehouse in Kent, before heading to Leeds before being shipped of to the USA.

Fraggle Rock is believe wiped. One has to wonder why Henson never got proper copies of all the UK opt outs. shame on them. Biggest Q should be why didnt Flextech buy the UK archive aswell.
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NicB1971175 posts since 25 Oct 2015
Central (West) Midlands Today
Disney couldn't give two hoots about "little old English shows" that were immensely popular in the 1980s so why on earth doesn't ITV acquire them...oh I forgot, ITV doesn't give two hoots about them either nor any other archived show.
I'll buy them for a £1 and sort out the paperwork myself....
"Dear Mr Disney, Tell that big-eared Mickey Mouse to hand over our shows or Pluto gets a trip to the vet."
4
62305822,409 posts since 19 Aug 2005
STV Central Reporting Scotland
Disney couldn't give two hoots about "little old English shows" that were immensely popular in the 1980s so why on earth doesn't ITV acquire them...oh I forgot, ITV doesn't give two hoots about them either nor any other archived show.
I'll buy them for a £1 and sort out the paperwork myself....
"Dear Mr Disney, Tell that big-eared Mickey Mouse to hand over our shows or Pluto gets a trip to the vet."


That one the best response yet to this whole subject, you might need to double your offer Razz
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robertclark1251,242 posts since 13 Jan 2009
STV Central Reporting Scotland
As was said on one website, it's possible to broadcast the shows in question. BUT, firstly, you'll have to spend a lot of time, effort, and money, trying to trace people involved in the shows in question firstly, for royalties payments. Things like All Clued Up, David Hamilton was the host, so he's due royalties. But, not only that, there may be those who devised the show, etc.
Neil Jones4,512 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
Several years ago I had read on a forum that the archive of former ITV franchise Television South (TVS) was missing. Then it was discovered that the company archive, which had eventually after many takeovers landed with Disney, was still in existence but important documentation surrounding the various materials had been destroyed. This meant even though tapes still existed, documents surrounding rights did not. If this is the case why are Disney, a multi-billion dollar company, unwilling to sort out the matter instead of burying their head in the sand as they are currently.

TVS were most famous for Art Attack, Catchphrase and Fraggle Rock, the latter two currently missing and unable to be released because of this conundrum.

Perhaps somebody could shed some light onto this legal mess.


An Art Attack TVS show (the one where Neil Buchanan made the Queen's face with £250k in £10 notes) was shown during the CITV Old Skool Weekend and I think it had a copyright year of 1992.

But anyway to cut a long story short, it continued after TVS lost its franchise because Neil Buchanan set up his own company, bought Art Attack from TVS, it continued to run on ITV until 2007 and the company was bought out, then later sold to Disney, who now own the format and resurrected Art Attack for Disney Junior.

As to why Disney show naff all interest in it, typically because they see it as worthless (due to lack of paperwork) and would spend more time sorting it out than what they would make back in it. So it languishes somewhere, unloved.

Clips of TVS Catchphrase were used (under fair use) on ITV's Saturday Night Gameshow documentary so the archive is definitely accessible to ITV. With regards to All Clued Up - Gordon Burns, host of Krypton Factor has stated before he gets sod all when Challenge repeats it so I dare say the same may apply to David Hamilton.
Inspector Sands12,651 posts since 25 Aug 2004

In September 1993, IFE launched a UK version of The Family Channel based at The Maidstone Studios and using some elements of the TVS programme archive. Flextech were a partner in the venture, taking a 39% stake in the business.[45]

In 1996, IFE sold its remaining 61% share to Flextech,[46] giving them full ownership of the venture, and subsequently in February 1997 Flextech rebranded the channel to Challenge TV, focusing mainly on game shows.


Biggest Q should be why didnt Flextech buy the UK archive aswell.

Because that's not what their business was. They were a channel operator not a production company or video archive.

As your research says, they bought, and eventually took over the 'venture' The Family Channel, they didn't buy into the remains of TVS.

Buying an archive of old programmes isn't cost effective when the way that channels work is just to license what they want to show, especially if the were intending to just stick to one genre.

Also presumably even after they sold their stake in the channel, IFE still got an income from Flextech showing old TVS programming
Inspector Sands12,651 posts since 25 Aug 2004
NicB1971 posted:
...oh I forgot, ITV doesn't give two hoots about them either nor any other archived show.

What makes you think that, please explain

I'm sure the ITV staff who spent the weekend protecting their valuable archive from rising flood waters would disagree

Quote:

I'll buy them for a £1 and sort out the paperwork myself....

I'd love to see the look on your partner/family's face when several container loads of obsolete tape formats turns up outside your house! Very Happy
3
62305822,409 posts since 19 Aug 2005
STV Central Reporting Scotland

Its that paper work that caused all the trouble, it was believe the tapes were in Warehouse in Kent, before heading to Leeds before being shipped of to the USA.


OH dear it seems some are not happy about the above EVEN WHEN I SAID It was Believed. Mainly because Ive been told of left, right and centre and where stuff went or didnt went or did went or was spotted. Ie I saying what been said over the years.







Now there muddle of Leeds
Last edited by 623058 on 28 December 2015 2:01pm
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ttt351 posts since 15 Aug 2015
As was said on one website, it's possible to broadcast the shows in question. BUT, firstly, you'll have to spend a lot of time, effort, and money, trying to trace people involved in the shows in question firstly, for royalties payments. Things like All Clued Up, David Hamilton was the host, so he's due royalties. But, not only that, there may be those who devised the show, etc.


The company that devised this particular show would be a major part of the problem with this example.

XPTLA itself has an ambiguous history in the States (I think it was one of several spin-offs of Barry-Enright Productions after Jack Barry died in 1984), and my understanding is that the US equivalents of Challenge can't show the original "$1m Chance of a Lifetime" shows due to rights issues (it has been attempted a few times due to the fact this was the first ever $1m TV game show). Chances of the UK version seeing the light of day before the copyright runs out? Nil, I would say.