The state of TV fonts - Page 6

RD

Roger Darthwell 21 November 2020 2:47pm

In this case please tell me how much money did the BBC paid for the use of Gill Sans in all the years it has been used

If you'd like to know that, you'll probably need to do a FOI request. I can tell you a licence for a single computer for desktop use only runs around the £300 mark for the family. The sums increase significantly once you start wanting licences that let you embed the font into things.

Roger Darthwell posted:

Still, it's not an issue for me that you like the reith font, everyone is entitled to it's own opinion, I am just stating the obvious

I have not stated my opinion on Reith.

I strongly appreciate the fact that you answered me, and I apologize if i thought you gave your opinion on the reith typeface

EL

elmarko 21 November 2020 8:01pm

It’s a lot of work to go to if the reason WASN’T saving money. What do YOU think it was for?

JL

J. Lyric 26 November 2020 9:29pm

This is probably widely known at this point - the fact that Channel 4's website is a mish mash of fonts - Some text is in "4 Headline/Text", while some is in the original Fontsmith types...

On that note, they're still using this odd system of having multiple webfonts, each with a different part of the base font, being used at once...

It's made me go crazy.

RD

Roger Darthwell 26 November 2020 10:55pm

J. Lyric posted:

This is probably widely known at this point - the fact that Channel 4's website is a mish mash of fonts - Some text is in "4 Headline/Text", while some is in the original Fontsmith types...

On that note, they're still using this odd system of having multiple webfonts, each with a different part of the base font, being used at once...

It's made me go crazy.

I can understand you mate

JL

J. Lyric 1 December 2020 6:23pm

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but the lads at Channel 5 have a custom type now.

https://jonagustin.com/channel5

RD

Roger Darthwell 1 December 2020 6:45pm

J. Lyric posted:

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but the lads at Channel 5 have a custom type now.

https://jonagustin.com/channel5

Blimey! At this point every single TV or Radio channel is going to get it's own font! I thought that since they are funded by ads, they would have no issues with font royalties......it's weird that at this point in time fonts have become so costly? Still I have to say that Channel 5's font is quite nice

NJ

Neil Jones Founding member 1 December 2020 7:35pm

Roger Darthwell posted:

J. Lyric posted:

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but the lads at Channel 5 have a custom type now.

https://jonagustin.com/channel5

Blimey! At this point every single TV or Radio channel is going to get it's own font! I thought that since they are funded by ads, they would have no issues with font royalties......it's weird that at this point in time fonts have become so costly? Still I have to say that Channel 5's font is quite nice

Like everything else, somebody else has made the font and they can expect appropriate remuneration for it, as it is their work. Gill Sans is now technically out of copyright (like most copyright things, lasts for the lifetime of the creator + 70 years. Eric Gill died in 1940, so that expired at the end of 2010), but I believe it's ended up under some other legal arrangement in the meantime. You can't make a similar derivative of Gill Sans and call it Gill Sans, as its trademarked, but there are a few similar (ish) fonts out there.

Re: costings, ad revenue is on the way down in TV terms as of late and channels can save money by just having a font of their own made for them that they then owe and don't have to pay out on. Yes it might cost a bit of money up front to get it designed and made and implemented, but in the long run it should save money.

RD

Roger Darthwell 1 December 2020 10:02pm

Neil Jones posted:

Roger Darthwell posted:

J. Lyric posted:

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but the lads at Channel 5 have a custom type now.

https://jonagustin.com/channel5

Blimey! At this point every single TV or Radio channel is going to get it's own font! I thought that since they are funded by ads, they would have no issues with font royalties......it's weird that at this point in time fonts have become so costly? Still I have to say that Channel 5's font is quite nice

Like everything else, somebody else has made the font and they can expect appropriate remuneration for it, as it is their work. Gill Sans is now technically out of copyright (like most copyright things, lasts for the lifetime of the creator + 70 years. Eric Gill died in 1940, so that expired at the end of 2010), but I believe it's ended up under some other legal arrangement in the meantime. You can't make a similar derivative of Gill Sans and call it Gill Sans, as its trademarked, but there are a few similar (ish) fonts out there.

Re: costings, ad revenue is on the way down in TV terms as of late and channels can save money by just having a font of their own made for them that they then owe and don't have to pay out on. Yes it might cost a bit of money up front to get it designed and made and implemented, but in the long run it should save money.

That similarish font to Gill Sans is called Gill Sans Nova, BTW Thank you so much for this detailed explanation!

JL

J. Lyric 1 December 2020 10:10pm

Roger Darthwell posted:

Neil Jones posted:

Roger Darthwell posted:

Blimey! At this point every single TV or Radio channel is going to get it's own font! I thought that since they are funded by ads, they would have no issues with font royalties......it's weird that at this point in time fonts have become so costly? Still I have to say that Channel 5's font is quite nice

Like everything else, somebody else has made the font and they can expect appropriate remuneration for it, as it is their work. Gill Sans is now technically out of copyright (like most copyright things, lasts for the lifetime of the creator + 70 years. Eric Gill died in 1940, so that expired at the end of 2010), but I believe it's ended up under some other legal arrangement in the meantime. You can't make a similar derivative of Gill Sans and call it Gill Sans, as its trademarked, but there are a few similar (ish) fonts out there.

Re: costings, ad revenue is on the way down in TV terms as of late and channels can save money by just having a font of their own made for them that they then owe and don't have to pay out on. Yes it might cost a bit of money up front to get it designed and made and implemented, but in the long run it should save money.

That similarish font to Gill Sans is called Gill Sans Nova, BTW Thank you so much for this detailed explanation!

Hey - don't forget Astoria~

https://www.fontspring.com/fonts/alan-meeks-collection/astoria
https://www.fontspring.com/fonts/alan-meeks-collection/astoria-sans

PF

PFML84 1 December 2020 10:35pm

The link to the new Channel 5 font isn’t working for me.

JL

J. Lyric 1 December 2020 10:44pm

PFML84 posted:

The link to the new Channel 5 font isn’t working for me.

That's because he updated the site VERY recently

Whoops!

"he" being the creator of the font, Jona Gustin

https://www.jonagustin.com/

DO

dosxuk 1 December 2020 10:51pm

Roger Darthwell posted:

Neil Jones posted:

Roger Darthwell posted:

Blimey! At this point every single TV or Radio channel is going to get it's own font! I thought that since they are funded by ads, they would have no issues with font royalties......it's weird that at this point in time fonts have become so costly? Still I have to say that Channel 5's font is quite nice

Like everything else, somebody else has made the font and they can expect appropriate remuneration for it, as it is their work. Gill Sans is now technically out of copyright (like most copyright things, lasts for the lifetime of the creator + 70 years. Eric Gill died in 1940, so that expired at the end of 2010), but I believe it's ended up under some other legal arrangement in the meantime. You can't make a similar derivative of Gill Sans and call it Gill Sans, as its trademarked, but there are a few similar (ish) fonts out there.

Re: costings, ad revenue is on the way down in TV terms as of late and channels can save money by just having a font of their own made for them that they then owe and don't have to pay out on. Yes it might cost a bit of money up front to get it designed and made and implemented, but in the long run it should save money.

That similarish font to Gill Sans is called Gill Sans Nova, BTW Thank you so much for this detailed explanation!

No, Gill Sans Nova is an updated for modern uses version of Gill Sans (by calling it something slightly different it's a good way for the font foundry to get everyone to buy new licences, even though there's little changes for most users).

However, even though the Gill Sans letter shapes are no longer in copyright, the computer code to draw those shapes is still protected. There's actually a surprising amount of programming involved in full professional typefaces, with control over kerning, alternate letter shapes, ligatures, hinting and other data that has to be context aware. It's that work which takes the time and cost to perfect and makes the difference between a cheap and expensive typeface.