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Soham Verdict - how the Networks have reacted

(December 2003)

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SB
SB
noggin posted:
c@t posted:
I did not say they were second class citizens, noggin, it is just common sense.

If we are going down the line of discrimination, why not have an Arabic translation? There are more Arabic-speakers in the UK than there are those able to understand BSL. Is that discrimination?

Why not fill the screen with people doing sign language in every language? Where are the Welsh subtitles?

No other news channel in its right mind - this obviously excludes the ITV News Channel - would have 1/3 of the screen covered in a combination of black emptyness and a sign language lady during its coverage of the most anticipated court case verdict there's been all year.

I don't give a sh-t what liberal, public-service claptrap you or the rest of the Beeb want to throw, noggin, it's common sense just to get rid of it, upset all 4 viewers who probably found it useful and delight a few hundred thousand who found it irritating and distracting.

Very silly of Sky to go and blur out the DOG on that footage, unless they had permission from the Beeb.


There is such a minimal amount of signing on News 24 I just don't get why it is such a big issue to some people. It is a legal requirement for non-BBC DTT channels, that the BBC have agreed to match.

What I do very strongly believe is that a service that is specifically made available at fixed times to a core community of the British public should not be ditched just because it is a breaking news story and more people might be watching...

You may feel public service is clap-trap - I chose to differ.

Yes - closed signing (i.e. an optional overlay) is obviously preferable to open signing (burned in for all viewers). However the technology for overlaying is not yet available properly - and the STB rendered avatar systems are not yet able to do BSL correctly - just SSE (which is pretty much equivalent to subtitles in signing - English rather than BSL)


Im not suggesting anything advanced - there should just be another feed of News24 going on a BBCi channel with the overlay of the 'signer' done the way its done now... just like the Proms this summer had extra live info at the bottom of the screen - these lovely astons were not superimposed in some technologically advanced way as it may have appeared, but it was basically a clean feed of the Proms going on BBCi with different astons added in at TV centre.

It would look like the box has magically superimposed a person signing when infact we have switeched to another feed of News24. Laughing
RD
rdobbie
They've just shown a clip on News 24 of a senior copper from Humberside Police walking out on Paxman on tonight's Newsnight, after Paxman grilled him on his police force's failings in recording Ian Huntley's history. Paxman wasn't actually being that rude (for a change) - I think it was the gravity of the situation that caused the copper to snap.
MD
mdtauk
I must say, I cannot fault SKYnews one bit for their coverage. I watched the extended News at Ten, and saw 3D representations of the House, Route and Court, as well as interviews with old partners of Huntley and Carr, Jeremy Thompson's experience interviewing Carr and Huntley before the charges, as well as all the usual details of the investigation etc.

A well produced and fitting closing to the award winning coverage during the Soham search.
:-(
A former member
noggin posted:

It is only a legal requirement for ITC licensed DTT services (i.e. not the BBC DTT TV services) - however the BBC have agreed to match the ITC targets - though there is no legal obligation on the BBC to do so AIUI. (This may change in the New Year under OFCOM - I'm not sure)


Although aren't the BBC services on MUXB ITC Licensed? It was the case years ago when BBC Knowledges was on MUXA that it had to adhere to ITC regs. Do all the DTT channels do their bit? Don't remember seeing many of them have signing, compared with the ONdigital days when they all did at some point

TBH I think the BBC approach is the best way - all its signed programmes are either repeats of non-signed programmes or in the case of News 24 another non-signed bulletin is availiable on BBC1.
LO
Londoner
ITV News Channel seems to carry a lot of its signing quota on Friday mornings
:-(
A former member
c@t posted:

You'd really think News 24 would just get rid of that sign language woman.



The idea is that if you really don't want a signer on screen you can turn over and see virtually the same news on BBC1
MD
mdtauk
Perhaps the BBC should launch a channel showing a schedule of the most popular programmes which runs during the day, with signing on all programmes, then switch to Audio Description repeats in the evening.

I am sure the BBC/Government/RNID&RNIB could fund the transmission space on Satelite and Cable, and then be sure that along with the reduction in the license fee for the disabled, that they have access to the channel.

One channel with a combination of the best programmes from all the BBC Channels with News etc, for the Deaf during the day, and the blind during the night.
CA
cat
noggin posted:
c@t posted:
(c) there are already provisions (i.e. subtitles) in place should the sign language person be removed.


That argument is flawed though.

Subtitles are fine for people who are hard of hearing, or who have lost their hearing after previously speaking English.

BSL is NOT English in sign language - it is a different language. Suggesting that BSL users fall back on subtitles is close to suggesting that we should listen to programmes dubbed into French.

Come on - it is less than an hour a day isn't it? We hearing people get a full service 24 hours a day...


Bloody hell. Clear off back to reading the Guardian, noggin.

Are you honestly telling me that there are a significant enough number of deaf people who cannot read English but understanding BSL watching BBC News 24 between the times of 1pm and 1.30pm, to constitute providing a service for them? I'd be amazed if that figure even got into double figures.

There are more foreign language speakers in the UK than that.
CA
cat
martinDTanderson posted:
Perhaps the BBC should launch a channel showing a schedule of the most popular programmes which runs during the day, with signing on all programmes, then switch to Audio Description repeats in the evening.

I am sure the BBC/Government/RNID&RNIB could fund the transmission space on Satelite and Cable, and then be sure that along with the reduction in the license fee for the disabled, that they have access to the channel.

One channel with a combination of the best programmes from all the BBC Channels with News etc, for the Deaf during the day, and the blind during the night.


It's a good idea, but not entirely sure how you make television more accessible to blind people, Martin.

Certainly something to consider, though. Production costs would be kept to a minimum because they wouldn't actually be producing much other than the signing,etc. It's whether the number of people it would actually benefit was significant enough to constitute launching an entire channel.
BB
BBC LDN
c@t posted:
Bloody hell. Clear off back to reading the Guardian, noggin.


It's not like you actually care either way about the issue of signing anyway.

If the BBC had cleared its usual signing slot, you would undoubtedly have been the loudest protestor at the Beeb's abandoning of one of its few, true public service obligations. The fact that it stayed with it didn't deter you from having a pop anyway. It amuses me that you attack others for supposedly failing to have opinions of their own, when the only consistency of your own opinions is that they must be vehemently anti-BBC.

You hate the BBC. We get the message. So why don't you p-ss off back to watching Sky News?
LU
Luke
BBC LDN posted:
c@t posted:
Bloody hell. Clear off back to reading the Guardian, noggin.


It's not like you actually care either way about the issue of signing anyway, nor do you especially care about the BBC being able to clear its BSL obligations away so that it can get back to the business of reporting the news. You're simply after an argument, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it incredibly tedious to have to wade through endless amounts of ever-weakening sarcasm and anti-BBC diatribes.

We all know you hate the BBC, so why don't you p-ss off back to watching Sky News?


Because he needs to take his frustrations out somewhere...and i'd be interested to know what newspapers he reads.
CA
cat
BBC LDN posted:
c@t posted:
Bloody hell. Clear off back to reading the Guardian, noggin.


It's not like you actually care either way about the issue of signing anyway.

If the BBC had cleared its usual signing slot, you would undoubtedly have been the loudest protestor at the Beeb's abandoning of one of its few, true public service obligations. The fact that it stayed with it didn't deter you from having a pop anyway. It amuses me that you attack others for supposedly failing to have opinions of their own, when the only consistency of your own opinions is that they must be vehemently anti-BBC.

You hate the BBC. We get the message. So why don't you p-ss off back to watching Sky News?


I do rather wonder why you continually attempt to make assumptions about how my mind works; I hope it's not a future career path, because you're not very good at it. It's disturbing, really.

Had they got rid of the signing lady, I would - as I have rather given the impression - been of the opinion that it was the right thing to do.

Wasn't overwhelmed by News 24's live coverage, but then I wasn't overwhelmed by anyone yesterday. Sky's reporting on the case itself was ahead of the pack, but the Beeb's reporting of the backgrounds of the key players was better than the rest.

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