IIRC ATV lost alot of their Archive in a similar way & I assume ABC & Associated Rediffusion suffered the same. Thames seem to have kept virtually all theirs seeing as alot of it is available on DVD
Now imagine in 5,10 or 20 years time a former contestant on Egg Heads is convicted of murder (falsely or otherwise). Don't forget, statistically this is VERY likely to happen.
Now, do remind me, where can I find the statistics for Eggheads contestants who later become murderers? And if someone has been on Eggheads are they more or less likely to be a murderer than someone who has for example been on Countdown?
And anyway the footage is unlikely to be used before a verdict had been passed, and unless the murder was directly related to a quiz, or the murderer has answered a question along the lines of "Have you killed anyone?" on the show, the loss of the footage is unlikely to make any backgrounder on the case any less interesting.
After watching the last Parkinson show, in which he said the entire first series was scrubbed by the beeb, I assumed that nowadays, everything was kept as well. Do they not keep the programmes on a computer instead of tape?
a better question is when did there actully start keeping everything, I sure someone around here said, even in 1993 some stupid man dumped alot of vision on
AIUI junking as policy started happening in the early 1960's when programmes were recorded on videotape. Until then, things were either recorded to film or transmitted live with no recording made.
There was a mandate to retain the film-based material (film could not be reused), but not videotaped material (as the tape could be recorded over and used again). The reason for this attitude being that programmes were often licenced only for an initial airing and a single repeat a short while later (usually after a few months, but not normally more than a couple of years), therefore as videotape was an expensive media at the time, there was little value felt in keeping material which couldn't be aired again without renegotation.
AIUI this attitude changed at some point around 1974/5 when it became clear that some of the programmes being junked were actually worth keeping (presumably they could also start to see how important the repeats market would be in the future).
However, I thought that from this point on, everything recorded was kept, until reading this thread I didn't know that they still had junkings as policy (even if it's a much more scaled down policy than it was in the past).
As Jason also says, material can now be retained on cheaper media taking up less space and with less demanding storage conditions. I can understand that they don't necessarily want racks and racks of 2" and 1" videotape taking up vast amounts of space at huge cost (along with maintaining functioning equipment to play them), but I'd imagine it would make more sense to remaster onto a modern format before ditching the originals rather than starting to consider junking programmes again.
I think after what happened with Doctor Who (especially the Troughton years), Dixon Of Dock Green, Z-Cars, Hancock, etc. The BBC are much more careful about what they do and don't junk
Indeed true, but you have to remembet that in the 1960's and the 1970's, the cost of Film was very expensive for all Broadcasters, so everything that wasn't needed after so long was simply wiped. Apparently (from what I read somewhere) that Michael Palin thought that the BBC were going to wipe Python after the first series, so he snook a few copies out of the BBC and copied them at home on a then new VCR, but it was the other way apparently, as the BBC were selling the show to America.
They've learned their lesson from the Comedies and Dramas, but I agree that day to day stuff like Gameshows shouldn't really be kept after 5 years, especially if no-one (person or broadcaster) shows any interest in them.
Eggheads is a good example. Its over five years old. It does have repeat value (it has been repeated on BBC 2 and Challenge) but as its a 'long-running quiz show' the BBC may not keep the tapes.
To complicate matters though, it is made by an independant production company (12 Yard) so its really up to them to keep the tapes as they would (probably) be the ones to benefit from any repeats.
I guess most things shown on the BBC in the 1970s and before were all BBC productions. There should be less for the BBC to archive themselves now.
I am glad this topic has been started as I was reading that and wondered about it as well.
I couldn't believe that they actually throw away a lot of their gameshows but only keep some episodes. It did say that they offer material to the BFI first and if they say no then it goes to the skip outside TVC with the Mr Blobby suit. They could always phone me, I would be happy to go down and take the 'trash' from them.
Do you remember the sitcom 'Orrible and Heartburn Hotel? They lasted 1 or 2 seasons. I wonder if they will be trashed as I can't recall either being repeated.
Where do they keep all the television programmes? I remember Aunties Bloomers had clips of the reels of films on lines of shelves.
After watching the last Parkinson show, in which he said the entire first series was scrubbed by the beeb, I assumed that nowadays, everything was kept as well. Do they not keep the programmes on a computer instead of tape?
The current archive formats are digital tape based - mainly broadcast VTR formats (D3 Composite and Digital Betacam Component SD, and I imagine HDCam for HD) though the D3 Composite format dates back to 1992 and VTRs for it are increasingly elderly and rare.
The 2" analogue composite transfers used from the dawn of VT until around 1982 have all been done (initially to D3, then to D3 and DigiBeta), and now there is a process to transfer 1" analogue VT - used from the late 70s until the mid 90s to both DigiBeta and uncompressed Data files (which I expect to be stored on data tape) I believe some D3 to DigiBeta and uncompressed Data transfers are also underway. All composite to component conversion is done by the best PAL decoder available - Transform (a BBC R&D design that is reversible)
Just to put the amount of data we are talking about into perspective. Broadcast standard definition video is 270Mbs (which can be reduced to around 180Mbs by only coding the picture and not the bits that are blank) That is around 20 Megabytes per second, which is around 72Gigabytes an hour - which is more than a dual layer BluRay disc can store...
That kind of data has to be stored on tape still - storing it for ever on hard drives isn't feasible, nor is it reliable (hard drives are probably less robust than magnetic tape)
As for what is kept and what is not - it is a difficult question. There are some shows where not only the final shows are kept, but also intermediate edits, rough cuts, and in some cases even rushes are retained. For other shows insert reels and the "Programme as Broadcast" may be retained.
It IS usual for a PasB as a minimum to be retained these days - I'm surprised there is a suggestion on the archive site that gameshows aren't archived...
However it is worth remembering that the cost of retaining a show is far more than the cost of the media it is stored on. You have to provide shelf space, in a building, in a secure and (hopefully) watertight and temperature controlled environment. You also have to retain a catalogue of the show - AND just as importantly all the paperwork pertaining to that show that would allow you to use the programme again. (If you have the tape but don't know the rights pertaining to it - you may never be able to sell it or broadcast it again...)
And if someone has been on Eggheads are they more or less likely to be a murderer than someone who has for example been on Countdown?
