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Stuart7,308 posts since 13 Oct 2003
Westcountry Spotlight
dosxuk posted:
Maybe we should have a non numerical EPG labelling system, using the remote control buttons like a mobile phone (already labelled on Sky) - perhaps a single letter to denote the broadcaster, or group of channels, then a number or letter to choose the channel from that group?

I'm sure someone could think of one. Shocked
Markymark7,301 posts since 13 Dec 2004
Meridian (North) South Today
Stuart posted:

No broadcaster or channel is dictating what order they appear on the EPG.


Well, yes they are, surely by defining the position numbers ?

Stuart posted:

Ofcom made the rules for DSat in order to create a standard. Either the standard exists or it doesn't, but the absence of one would create a rather confusing situation for viewers, and something of a 'free-for-all' for Sky as they would then be allowed to effectively sell positions for channels available to their 10m subscribers.

Why would Sony, for example, want to create their own EPG with different numbers on Freeview?



Sony don't, but they enable the viewer to do so if they wish, what's wrong with that ? As said, I've put BBC News on Ch 8, because quite frankly I can't be arsed to press 8-0 to access it. I know where to find it, so that's all that's important for me ?
Stuart7,308 posts since 13 Oct 2003
Westcountry Spotlight
Markymark posted:
Stuart posted:

No broadcaster or channel is dictating what order they appear on the EPG.

Well, yes they are, surely by defining the position numbers ?

Stuart posted:

Ofcom made the rules for DSat in order to create a standard. Either the standard exists or it doesn't, but the absence of one would create a rather confusing situation for viewers, and something of a 'free-for-all' for Sky as they would then be allowed to effectively sell positions for channels available to their 10m subscribers.

Why would Sony, for example, want to create their own EPG with different numbers on Freeview?

Sony don't, but they enable the viewer to do so if they wish, what's wrong with that ? As said, I've put BBC News on Ch 8, because quite frankly I can't be arsed to press 8-0 to access it. I know where to find it, so that's all that's important for me ?

I amended my post to say that no SINGLE broadcaster is dictating the order on the Sky EPG. It's decided by strict rules.

What advantage is it for someone to change it on their STB? If they see a trailer advertising something on 'Discovery History Sky Ch 522', do they then have to run a mental algorithm to remember how they determined channel positions, or just leave it where it was originally? I know which I'd rather do.

As for Freeview: I really can't see much difference between pressing '8' rather than '80' for BBC News. If that's the basis of your problem with the EPG then I suspect that you have bigger issues.

It's of benefit to the broadcasters to have a standard EPG for each platform. For example 'Yesterday' is promoted as being on Freeview Ch 12 (even on trailers shown on Sky & Virgin), but it's no use to them if they have to add the caveat "...unless you've tinkered with your channel listing, in which case it could be anywhere, or nowhere!" Confused
Markymark7,301 posts since 13 Dec 2004
Meridian (North) South Today
Stuart posted:

I amended my post to say that no SINGLE broadcaster is dictating the order on the Sky EPG. It's decided by strict rules.

What advantage is it for someone to change it on their STB? If they see a trailer advertising something on 'Discovery History Sky Ch 522', do they then have to run a mental algorithm to remember how they determined channel positions, or just leave it where it was originally? I know which I'd rather do.

As for Freeview: I really can't see much difference between pressing '8' rather than '80' for BBC News. If that's the basis of your problem with the EPG then I suspect that you have bigger issues.



Now come on, calm down it's only the poxy telly. I don't have 'issues' with the EPG, but I do like to rationalise it to my own preferences. I've deleted all the subscription channels, p0rno stuff, and shopping gunk,, because it just gets in the way. I watch a fair amount of BBC News, so it makes sense to have a single button selection for it

Stuart posted:

It's of benefit to the broadcasters to have a standard EPG for each platform. For example 'Yesterday' is promoted as being on Freeview Ch 12 (even on trailers shown on Sky & Virgin), but it's no use to them if they have to add the caveat "...unless you've tinkered with your channel listing, in which case it could be anywhere, or nowhere!" Confused


Fine, as I say have a default EPG by all means, and as I also said most would leave it at that, but to be forced to have it, is indicative of the one size fits all/lowest common denominator that gets applied to everything now.
Brekkie32,574 posts since 4 Jan 2003
HTV Wales Wales Today
noggin posted:
Markymark posted:
Stuart posted:
Markymark posted:
Here's a really wacky idea, make the EPG allocations of all channels user definable, just as they are on some more upmarket Freeview receivers.

...and instantly remove the value!

That's an idea straight out of a Karl Marx handbook!

What's your next one, value every house at £1 and make it for sale by public auction at the end of the street?

Some companies have paid for those positions, and/or traded them at great cost on the basis of their value. Shocked


I don't give a monkey's how much companies might have paid for their particular EPG position, perhaps if they're so concerned about capturing the maximum number of viewers they could think about investing their money in, err; decent programmes. The whole business of EPG positions needs to be subverted, and the viewer given the option to put what they want where they want, just like the presets on your car radio. Do you think I watch BBC News any more or less just because I've reallocated it on my TV from Ch80 to Ch8 ?


Quite right.

There should be a default - as effectively there has been for years on analogue (where TVs have automatically tuned BBC One to 1, BBC Two to 2, ITV1 to 3, C4 to 4, Five to 5 etc. using teletext or similar information). However most analogue sets have then let you re-order the EPG as you see fit - and delete channels you don't want to watch from your line-up.

We should be able to do the same on DSat, DTT, DCab. Of course Pay-TV operators don't want this - they want you to have to surf through all the channels you DON'T subscribe to, so that you can see what you're missing.

Of course it falls to pieces a bit when new channels launch - as they may default to EPG channel numbers that users may have allocated to existing services. However there could be ways round this.

It's one thing though ordering half a dozen or so regional variations you might have picked up in the terrestrial days - quite another ordering dozens, if not hundreds, of channels.

Do Sky have the favourites option on the EPG so you can at least remove unwanted channels?
I preferred the internet when it had a sense of humour.
noggin14,632 posts since 26 Jun 2001
Brekkie posted:

Do Sky have the favourites option on the EPG so you can at least remove unwanted channels?


They have a favourites option - but it isn't very useful.

When you press Blue you scroll through the (max 50) channels you've selected to be on your favourites list (on the New EPG it first jumps back to your last viewed channel and THEN scrolls through your favourites)

I used to have all the HD channels in my favourites list - so I could quickly see what was on in HD. However there are now too many HD channels to fit in the favourites list (though some are kids channels or HD channels I'd never watch so I'm just about OK)

What you can't do is delete channels from the EPG for when you use the CH +/- buttons. You have to surf through channels you will never subscribe to or have no interest in viewing... Very annoying.
Charlie Wells3,809 posts since 26 Nov 2003 Moderator
Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
Perhaps a silly question but where channels have SD & HD versions with the exception of the 'terrestrial channels' is there really a need for the two versions to have separate channel numbers? I'd have thought that if you have subscribed/activated the HD packages you would would have a HD ready TV and therefore unlikely to watch the SD channel versions.

Also with Sky & Virign I believe a HD version of their box is required, so I'd have thought it would be possible to have a software setting to enable a simple switch to the SD feed via the HD channel number if required.
"Listen, we've all got something to bring to this conversation, but from now on what I think you should bring is silence." - Rimmer
derek500727 posts since 10 Dec 2003
Westcountry Points West
noggin posted:
Brekkie posted:

Do Sky have the favourites option on the EPG so you can at least remove unwanted channels?


They have a favourites option - but it isn't very useful.

When you press Blue you scroll through the (max 50) channels you've selected to be on your favourites list (on the New EPG it first jumps back to your last viewed channel and THEN scrolls through your favourites)


Apart from the blue button, there is a separate EPG for Favourites too. TV Guide, then yellow button.
Inspector Sands13,966 posts since 25 Aug 2004
noggin posted:
They have a favourites option - but it isn't very useful.

When you press Blue you scroll through the (max 50) channels you've selected to be on your favourites list (on the New EPG it first jumps back to your last viewed channel and THEN scrolls through your favourites)

What you can't do is delete channels from the EPG for when you use the CH +/- buttons. You have to surf through channels you will never subscribe to or have no interest in viewing... Very annoying.

Virgin boxes do do something similar - channels you don't subscribe to don't appear when using the CH -/+ buttons but they do on the now and next banner. The favourites system on Virgin works a bit better too (although the channel line-up is more organised and there's less junk to plough through than on Sky).

As a viewer an editable EPG is a good thing, however as someone who works on one of the channels on the EPG it's not. The way it is now the less well-known channels are intermingled amongst the big guns, especially at the end of a genre section (for example a new channel in one genre will be be right next to the longest established in the next) and it does encourage viewers to discover those channels. If everyone can move all the 'big guns' together at the top of the EPG for convienience sake then it would probably mean the end of a lot of channels