BH
I was told the same thing as you about the EPG broadcast Noggin, but after setting up a digibox outside the footprint of the Default Transponder I've seen different behaviour.
One of the joys of the Sky system is that it is a black box, so we all have to look at it's behaviour as outsiders and try and draw our own conclusions from our observations of the behaviour of the system. It is possible we may all have seen different things and draw different conclusions as to how it works which are all wrong.
Whereas Freesat is based on more open standards so it should be easier for everyone to work out how it works even if they do not have access to documentation.
noggin posted:
Ah - my understanding was that the current Sky EPG implementation only carried a couple of hours of Now and Next information on every EPG transponder
I was told the same thing as you about the EPG broadcast Noggin, but after setting up a digibox outside the footprint of the Default Transponder I've seen different behaviour.
One of the joys of the Sky system is that it is a black box, so we all have to look at it's behaviour as outsiders and try and draw our own conclusions from our observations of the behaviour of the system. It is possible we may all have seen different things and draw different conclusions as to how it works which are all wrong.
Whereas Freesat is based on more open standards so it should be easier for everyone to work out how it works even if they do not have access to documentation.
ST
I think I understood some of that 
As facinating as noggin & Bvsh's tech info is (and I do appreciate it, if it's alittle 'whoosh' over my head) do either of you know what the FreeSat EPG will look like? You seem to know quite alot about it. I'm guessing it's not anything that's commercially secret given the 'open' nature of the coding.
Furthermore, would I be able to view the FreeSat EPG on a non-sub Sky Box? There is a space for a plug-in CAM, but I would assume FreeSat wouldn't use one; would Sky prevent/restrict access though?
As facinating as noggin & Bvsh's tech info is (and I do appreciate it, if it's alittle 'whoosh' over my head) do either of you know what the FreeSat EPG will look like? You seem to know quite alot about it. I'm guessing it's not anything that's commercially secret given the 'open' nature of the coding.
Furthermore, would I be able to view the FreeSat EPG on a non-sub Sky Box? There is a space for a plug-in CAM, but I would assume FreeSat wouldn't use one; would Sky prevent/restrict access though?
JV
That's probably because RI:SE was a joint production for C4 between Sky and Princess Productions.
James Vertigan
Founding member
Crispin posted:
Some background music used to be used on RI:SE (the first version with Edith Bowman) on Channel 4 a few years ago during sports and news sections.
That's probably because RI:SE was a joint production for C4 between Sky and Princess Productions.
NG
You won't get the freesat EPG or the freesat versions of the interactive service on a non-sub Sky box. The Sky boxes don't support the EPG system or interactive protocols that freesat uses and would need a software download to enable this.
When you enter a channel number on a Sky box - it will use the Sky EPG number.
However the only advantage to the freesat EPG over a Sky EPG is that only freesat channels will be in the freesat EPG AIUI - so you won't have to skip over pay TV services.
noggin
Founding member
StuartPlymouth posted:
I think I understood some of that
As facinating as noggin & Bvsh's tech info is (and I do appreciate it, if it's alittle 'whoosh' over my head) do either of you know what the FreeSat EPG will look like? You seem to know quite alot about it. I'm guessing it's not anything that's commercially secret given the 'open' nature of the coding.
Furthermore, would I be able to view the FreeSat EPG on a non-sub Sky Box? There is a space for a plug-in CAM, but I would assume FreeSat wouldn't use one; would Sky prevent/restrict access though?
As facinating as noggin & Bvsh's tech info is (and I do appreciate it, if it's alittle 'whoosh' over my head) do either of you know what the FreeSat EPG will look like? You seem to know quite alot about it. I'm guessing it's not anything that's commercially secret given the 'open' nature of the coding.
Furthermore, would I be able to view the FreeSat EPG on a non-sub Sky Box? There is a space for a plug-in CAM, but I would assume FreeSat wouldn't use one; would Sky prevent/restrict access though?
You won't get the freesat EPG or the freesat versions of the interactive service on a non-sub Sky box. The Sky boxes don't support the EPG system or interactive protocols that freesat uses and would need a software download to enable this.
When you enter a channel number on a Sky box - it will use the Sky EPG number.
However the only advantage to the freesat EPG over a Sky EPG is that only freesat channels will be in the freesat EPG AIUI - so you won't have to skip over pay TV services.
ST
Now, Noggin, this begs the question of all those people with ex-sky boxes stuck in their cupboards, in garages or under their beds. My Mate text me last Thursday and announced that (finally) his listed building had been given permission for a communal dish last week.
Will I be able to give him one of my old Sky boxes and (after purchasing a FreeSat or whatever card) will he be able to get the channels?
Is another receiver required, or will BSkyB be asked to download the software to make all boxes compliant that they have issued?
Will I be able to give him one of my old Sky boxes and (after purchasing a FreeSat or whatever card) will he be able to get the channels?
Is another receiver required, or will BSkyB be asked to download the software to make all boxes compliant that they have issued?
PE
Pete
Founding member
On a similar, if not identical note, if I was to plug in the bf's old sky box and connect it to a telly in his mother's bedroom. What would happen?
Do i need one of those free cards from Sky we used to talk about on here? Will she gets pestered by annoying messages / dead channels? Will the EPG work at all?
Do i need one of those free cards from Sky we used to talk about on here? Will she gets pestered by annoying messages / dead channels? Will the EPG work at all?
NG
Sky boxes are nothing to do with "freesat". They are to do with "Freesat from Sky". Confused? Lots of people are... ("freesat" with the lower case "f" and no mention of Sky is the BBC/ITV "Freeview for satellite" platform due to launch this Spring - May I believe)
A Sky box without a card will still receive the Sky EPG (with BBC One London on 101 and ITV1 London on 103) and the FTA channels (BBC, ITV, Sky News, CNN, Shopping channels etc.)
It WON'T receive the freesat EPG - i.e. the channels will have the Sky channel numbers not the freesat ones - but, at least initially, all the freesat channels will also be in the Sky EPG I suspect.
A Sky box WITH a "Freesat from Sky" or lapsed subscription card (dark blue with yellow house not light blue) will work as a Free to View system. This gives you C4, Five and Sky Three (and possibly some of other channels).
This is the best bet for getting free satellite TV if you have a Sky box. If you don't have a card I believe they cost a one off charge of £20.
Is another receiver required, or will BSkyB be asked to download the software to make all boxes compliant that they have issued?
For the freesat (i.e. non-Sky) EPG and interactive services a freesat receiver will be required - the EPG and interactive systems are different to Sky.
HOWEVER - the important thing to remember is that the video and audio transmissions (and probably subtitles) are the same transmission on both Sky/Freesat from Sky and freesat - the broadcasters aren't broadcasting two versions of the things. All they are doing is broadcasting a second EPG for freesat receivers that will map the existing vision, audio and subtitles broadcasts, along with different interactive information, onto a different range of channel numbers, with a different EPG system (which won't have to look the same on every receiver - and has more hidden metadata for PVR use than Sky appears to have) - and deal with things like series recording, split recording, alternate instance (say from a +1 channel) recording differntly to Sky (which has a very basic PVR recording system)
Also because Sky boxes use a proprietary (OpenTV) system for interactive TV , freesat will instead use the more open system used on Freeview (MHEG5) for interactive services.
noggin
Founding member
StuartPlymouth posted:
Now, Noggin, this begs the question of all those people with ex-sky boxes stuck in their cupboards, in garages or under their beds. My Mate text me last Thursday and announced that (finally) his listed building had been given permission for a communal dish last week.
Will I be able to give him one of my old Sky boxes and (after purchasing a FreeSat or whatever card) will he be able to get the channels?
Will I be able to give him one of my old Sky boxes and (after purchasing a FreeSat or whatever card) will he be able to get the channels?
Sky boxes are nothing to do with "freesat". They are to do with "Freesat from Sky". Confused? Lots of people are... ("freesat" with the lower case "f" and no mention of Sky is the BBC/ITV "Freeview for satellite" platform due to launch this Spring - May I believe)
A Sky box without a card will still receive the Sky EPG (with BBC One London on 101 and ITV1 London on 103) and the FTA channels (BBC, ITV, Sky News, CNN, Shopping channels etc.)
It WON'T receive the freesat EPG - i.e. the channels will have the Sky channel numbers not the freesat ones - but, at least initially, all the freesat channels will also be in the Sky EPG I suspect.
A Sky box WITH a "Freesat from Sky" or lapsed subscription card (dark blue with yellow house not light blue) will work as a Free to View system. This gives you C4, Five and Sky Three (and possibly some of other channels).
This is the best bet for getting free satellite TV if you have a Sky box. If you don't have a card I believe they cost a one off charge of £20.
Quote:
Is another receiver required, or will BSkyB be asked to download the software to make all boxes compliant that they have issued?
For the freesat (i.e. non-Sky) EPG and interactive services a freesat receiver will be required - the EPG and interactive systems are different to Sky.
HOWEVER - the important thing to remember is that the video and audio transmissions (and probably subtitles) are the same transmission on both Sky/Freesat from Sky and freesat - the broadcasters aren't broadcasting two versions of the things. All they are doing is broadcasting a second EPG for freesat receivers that will map the existing vision, audio and subtitles broadcasts, along with different interactive information, onto a different range of channel numbers, with a different EPG system (which won't have to look the same on every receiver - and has more hidden metadata for PVR use than Sky appears to have) - and deal with things like series recording, split recording, alternate instance (say from a +1 channel) recording differntly to Sky (which has a very basic PVR recording system)
Also because Sky boxes use a proprietary (OpenTV) system for interactive TV , freesat will instead use the more open system used on Freeview (MHEG5) for interactive services.
NG
As long as there is an LNB feed to the bedroom (you can't split LNB feeds like you can aerial feeds) then the box will work - if it still works!
Do i need one of those free cards from Sky we used to talk about on here?
If you want C4 or Five - which are FTV not FTA - then you will need either a £20 Freesat from Sky card, or if you have a lapsed Sky subscription card (dark blue with yellow house) then it will probably work.
Will she gets pestered by annoying messages / dead channels?
All the non-hidden UK channels (but not those aimed at the Republic of Ireland) are in the default EPG on Sky - so you have to surf through the pay TV channels which will have the "You are not subscribed - dial this number to subscribe" type messages. However you don't get nagged on the channels you can see.
Will the EPG work at all?
Yes - though without a card there is no regional mapping of BBC or ITV - so you get BBC One London on 101 and ITV1 London on 103.
The EPG works on a receiver without a card and without a subscription.
noggin
Founding member
Hymagumba posted:
On a similar, if not identical note, if I was to plug in the bf's old sky box and connect it to a telly in his mother's bedroom. What would happen?
As long as there is an LNB feed to the bedroom (you can't split LNB feeds like you can aerial feeds) then the box will work - if it still works!
Quote:
Do i need one of those free cards from Sky we used to talk about on here?
If you want C4 or Five - which are FTV not FTA - then you will need either a £20 Freesat from Sky card, or if you have a lapsed Sky subscription card (dark blue with yellow house) then it will probably work.
Quote:
Will she gets pestered by annoying messages / dead channels?
All the non-hidden UK channels (but not those aimed at the Republic of Ireland) are in the default EPG on Sky - so you have to surf through the pay TV channels which will have the "You are not subscribed - dial this number to subscribe" type messages. However you don't get nagged on the channels you can see.
Quote:
Will the EPG work at all?
Yes - though without a card there is no regional mapping of BBC or ITV - so you get BBC One London on 101 and ITV1 London on 103.
The EPG works on a receiver without a card and without a subscription.
BH
One of the features of Sky is that the software in the box does get regularly updated. If your box has missed an upgrade through being switched off, then you might find some features are missing. One of the obvious ones would be the changed EPG making all the radio channels start with 0. I've no idea if you could access the radio channels on such a box.
I've read tales elsewhere of digiboxes that have missed several upgrades (say, has been in the garage for 3 years) which have become useless because they then cannot understand the current versions of the software being broadcast and so fail to download it.
StuartPlymouth posted:
Now, Noggin, this begs the question of all those people with ex-sky boxes stuck in their cupboards, in garages or under their beds.
One of the features of Sky is that the software in the box does get regularly updated. If your box has missed an upgrade through being switched off, then you might find some features are missing. One of the obvious ones would be the changed EPG making all the radio channels start with 0. I've no idea if you could access the radio channels on such a box.
I've read tales elsewhere of digiboxes that have missed several upgrades (say, has been in the garage for 3 years) which have become useless because they then cannot understand the current versions of the software being broadcast and so fail to download it.