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MY83438 posts since 16 Nov 2016
Will serve Discovery right if all their viewers have already left Sky and their viewing figures collapse in the weeks ahead.


Your logic isn't sound. If Discovery's viewers have left Sky, it's to seek Discovery, Eurosport et al on alternative platforms.
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Stuart6,957 posts since 13 Oct 2003
Westcountry Spotlight
I wonder of the offer (£) from Sky was the same, but the terms are different eg EPG positions, a couple more HD channels, more on-demand content etc - for example at the moment content from Eurosport can take days to appear on demand and doesn't stick around for long - perhaps we will see Eurosport 360 on Sky UK&ROI.

Those would be difficult for Sky to use as a negotiating tool.


They don't control the EPG positions, and they don't own any higher up in the Documentaries section that they could 'swap' with any discovery channels.

On demand services are operated by the individual broadcasters, so Discovery could add more content at any time if they wished, just as they could add more HD channels if they chose to do so.
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bilky asko4,996 posts since 9 Sep 2006
Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
People are giving Discovery too much credit. It sounds like to me a fully orchestrated campaign to drum up a bit of publicity, and they were never actually expecting a better deal out of it. They get to spite Sky by making them lose some customers, and they'll get a small boost in viewers.
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TellyTime110 posts since 9 Jan 2017
I wonder of the offer (£) from Sky was the same, but the terms are different eg EPG positions, a couple more HD channels, more on-demand content etc - for example at the moment content from Eurosport can take days to appear on demand and doesn't stick around for long - perhaps we will see Eurosport 360 on Sky UK&ROI.

Those would be difficult for Sky to use as a negotiating tool.


They don't control the EPG positions , and they don't own any higher up in the Documentaries section that they could 'swap' with any discovery channels.

On demand services are operated by the individual broadcasters, so Discovery could add more content at any time if they wished, just as they could add more HD channels if they chose to do so.


That's not entirely true.

Sky have agreements in place for various channels to use slots higher up the EPG, and this includes TLC which is on 125 and would otherwise be on 145.
robertclark1251,191 posts since 13 Jan 2009
STV Central Reporting Scotland
And to further what tellytime has said, I refer back to the post I made, with the example of when ITV were launching ITV3 on all platforms in 2004. Initially, I used it as an example of how talks can go down to the wire, as happened there and with the Discovery/Sky talks.

Sky do control the EPG positions. In the ITV3 example, ITV wanted ITV3 to be higher up the EPG than the 140s. ITV2 was on 145 at the time. By agreeing to buy Sky's 49.5% stake inn GSB for £10 million, they were getting full control of the two remaining GSB channels, which came with, in one case, a much higher EPG position. ITV closed Plus on 118, and put ITV2 in there. As part of the sale of their stake, Sky also gave ITV3 a much higher EPG position than originally planned, 119.
Stuart6,957 posts since 13 Oct 2003
Westcountry Spotlight
That's not entirely true.

Sky have agreements in place for various channels to use slots higher up the EPG, and this includes TLC which is on 125 and would otherwise be on 145.

I'm aware many companies swap channels around within their own EPG allocations, and Sky agreed to a swap between Discovery's TLC and Challenge to move t up to a higher slot when it launched.


However, most of the Discovery channels occupy the highest slots in the Docs genre, and Sky don't have any they own outright (such as the jointly owned History) that they could allow a lower-placed Discovery channel to occupy as a swap.

The point I was making, was that Sky have no authority to randomly move channels higher up the EPG.

Even when the EPG is reorganised to remove gaps, it's done in strict order, so that no channel gains an advantage that they didn't previously have.

The only time this happens, is if a new PSB launches, and that gets the 'next highest' vacant slot (eg when BBC HD and BBC Alba launched). But that's not likely to ever happen again.
1
MetalGearRex1,498 posts since 11 May 2016
London London
And to further what tellytime has said, I refer back to the post I made, with the example of when ITV were launching ITV3 on all platforms in 2004. Initially, I used it as an example of how talks can go down to the wire, as happened there and with the Discovery/Sky talks.

Sky do control the EPG positions. In the ITV3 example, ITV wanted ITV3 to be higher up the EPG than the 140s. ITV2 was on 145 at the time. By agreeing to buy Sky's 49.5% stake inn GSB for £10 million, they were getting full control of the two remaining GSB channels, which came with, in one case, a much higher EPG position. ITV closed Plus on 118, and put ITV2 in there. As part of the sale of their stake, Sky also gave ITV3 a much higher EPG position than originally planned, 119.

ITV2 was never on EPG 145 before it was moved to EPG 118. EPG 176 was where it occupied until the GSB acquisition.
'Even by our standards, that was remarkably unproductive.' - Andrew Neil
1
Stuart6,957 posts since 13 Oct 2003
Westcountry Spotlight
Sky do control the EPG positions. In the ITV3 example, ITV wanted ITV3 to be higher up the EPG than the 140s. ITV2 was on 145 at the time. By agreeing to buy Sky's 49.5% stake inn GSB for £10 million, they were getting full control of the two remaining GSB channels, which came with, in one case, a much higher EPG position. ITV closed Plus on 118, and put ITV2 in there. As part of the sale of their stake, Sky also gave ITV3 a much higher EPG position than originally planned, 119.

Sky most definitely do not control EPG positions.

ITV2 was never on EPG 145 before it was moved to EPG 118. EPG 176 was where it occupied until the GSB acquisition.

Indeed, which was the end of the entertainment section at the time it launched.


In the early days of Sky Digital, broadcasters were allocated 3 consecutive channels on the original EPG (except the top 5 PSB reserved positions).

They owned them, whether or not they used them. I believe the intention was for a secondary channel and a +1.

Very early on, Disney vacated 115 (and the unused 116/117) to move to the Kids section. These were taken over by BBC One/Two NI for the Irish EPG, they have since taken them for BBC One/Two HD on the UK version of the EPG under the rules I explained previously. They were also used for RTE One/Two on the NI EPG initially. That explains the 115-117 gap seen by many in the rest of the UK.

GSB owned 118-120, but didn't have the right to shuffle their wholly ITV-owned channels into the spare 119 & 120 slots until they bought the remaining elements of GSB from Sky.

Once they did, they shuffled ITV2 into 118 (replacing PLUS) and ITV3 into 119 (filling an empty slot, which they now owned outright, to launch the new channel replacing PLUS at very short notice).

I have a feeling that either Men & Motors or one of their other channels (Breeze) may have occupied 120 prior to ITV4 launching.

C4 actually bought an entire company that owned the slots adjacent to theirs on the EPG, and closed it down, shuffling the rest of their channels into the spaces, which is why they have 6 adjacent positions. I think it was called 'Life TV' or something similar.

Sorry if that sounds very long-winded. I'm sure we have all discussed this before.

Essentially, Sky themselves don't control EPG positions, and never have, except for their own or those they buy as other broadcasters sell them.
Last edited by Stuart on 1 February 2017 8:50pm