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Sky Arts goes FTA

Available on Freeview channel 11 from Sept. 17th

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MA
Markymark
Brekkie posted:
Sadly yes as we've had significant issues with BBC in SD since it moved and Com 7/Com 8 been hit and miss too - I think they were switched to lower frequencies too in recent years.


OK, yes the BBC SD mux moved back in February (and a duplicate version on the old frequency ceases in two weeks)

COM 7 and 8 started life on the same low frequencies that the PSBs and COM4/5/6 are moving to, but moved 'up-band' recently (and COM 8 has gone anyway of course)

Anyway, in short, yep, get a new aerial.
Rexogamer and Brekkie gave kudos
DA
Dave Founding member
Brekkie posted:
Charlie Wells posted:
all new Phil posted:
Agree with Brekkie that there needs to be a reassessment of broadcast standards on Freeview. HD should no longer be a primarily premium (pay) option, it needs to be the standard. I can’t even understand why SD is still even a thing. People are used now to the picture quality of online streaming that Freeview feels like the absolute pits, and that benefits literally nobody but Sky.

I’d have - in HD only - all BBC channels (including regions), all ITV, C4 and C5 plus up to 4 spin-offs each, then 4 each for Sky, UKTV, Discovery, and the rest sold to whoever wants them. No +1s.

The problem you're up against with Freeview is that only in the last 5 years have TVs tended to come with Freeview HD built in as standard, and even now some available (e.g. on Argos) support only DVB-T. Whilst some of those connect their TVs up to Sky or Virgin, many TVs aren't. Not everyone can afford to buy a new TV or an external device to be able to watch DVB-T2 channels.

However it would be preferable if one of more multiplex on Freeview could be switched over to DVB-T2. This would help with capacity, and perhaps encourage some channels to switch to a HD only service. Then eventually long term there could be just one DVB-T mux for the PSB channels (BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5) in SD, providing the equivalent of a pre-DSO service for those with older TVs.

Just like with DSO it has to be tough **** to an extent. Technology has changed too and (sadly) become much more disposable with the frequency of updates to phone and computer operating systems and support ending within just a few years. Yes a support scheme may be required but frankly you can get a Freeview HD box for less than £30 now, a fraction of the price set top boxes were when schemes were in place.

Also by sticking with SD don't think Freeview has future proofed at all in the battle for spectrum with 5G. I'm not saying it should be a fully HD platform but everything should be T2 now. On average I suspect with how Arquiva squeeze in channels you'd probably get around 6 HD and 6 SD channels on each mux, so removing simulcast across six muxes we'd be almost where we are now.


I can see Freeview bumble along as it is now and eventually replaced with 5G broadcast TV. Could some space within 5G be reserved for free to air TV and you have a TV box that connects to the 5G network - either directly or via a 5G Arial on the side of the house.
MA
Markymark
Dave posted:
Brekkie posted:
Charlie Wells posted:
The problem you're up against with Freeview is that only in the last 5 years have TVs tended to come with Freeview HD built in as standard, and even now some available (e.g. on Argos) support only DVB-T. Whilst some of those connect their TVs up to Sky or Virgin, many TVs aren't. Not everyone can afford to buy a new TV or an external device to be able to watch DVB-T2 channels.

However it would be preferable if one of more multiplex on Freeview could be switched over to DVB-T2. This would help with capacity, and perhaps encourage some channels to switch to a HD only service. Then eventually long term there could be just one DVB-T mux for the PSB channels (BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5) in SD, providing the equivalent of a pre-DSO service for those with older TVs.

Just like with DSO it has to be tough **** to an extent. Technology has changed too and (sadly) become much more disposable with the frequency of updates to phone and computer operating systems and support ending within just a few years. Yes a support scheme may be required but frankly you can get a Freeview HD box for less than £30 now, a fraction of the price set top boxes were when schemes were in place.

Also by sticking with SD don't think Freeview has future proofed at all in the battle for spectrum with 5G. I'm not saying it should be a fully HD platform but everything should be T2 now. On average I suspect with how Arquiva squeeze in channels you'd probably get around 6 HD and 6 SD channels on each mux, so removing simulcast across six muxes we'd be almost where we are now.


I can see Freeview bumble along as it is now and eventually replaced with 5G broadcast TV. Could some space within 5G be reserved for free to air TV and you have a TV box that connects to the 5G network - either directly or via a 5G Arial on the side of the house.


It won't work like that, that's like saying what part of 4G can I get TV Forum on ? 5G will give faster internet access than 4G, and (most domestic grade) fibre connections
GE
thegeek Founding member
It is possible though to reserve capacity on 5G networks - eg how BT intend to set aside bandwidth for remote production contribution links. https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/bt-sport-and-ee-showcase-5g-remote-production/5134860.article has a bit of info.

I don't know how scalable that would be for DTH though - perhaps some sort of multicast stream to subscribe to for linear channels?
NG
noggin Founding member
thegeek posted:

I don't know how scalable that would be for DTH though - perhaps some sort of multicast stream to subscribe to for linear channels?


ATSC 3.0 in the US is based on multicast IP, albeit delivered over RF channels allocated to TV. I wonder how similar a 5G approach might be.
MA
Markymark
thegeek posted:
It is possible though to reserve capacity on 5G networks - eg how BT intend to set aside bandwidth for remote production contribution links. https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/bt-sport-and-ee-showcase-5g-remote-production/5134860.article has a bit of info.

I don't know how scalable that would be for DTH though - perhaps some sort of multicast stream to subscribe to for linear channels?


Indeed, that's probably an advanced traffic shaping feature, to avoid the sort of situation we had (for instance) at London 2012 and the cycling race scoring data failure, (because all the punters were using the local 3G networks to send photos etc)

Aren't EE essentially adding a layer to their 4G network for the (very delayed) ESN (Emergency Services Network) with similar features of traffic priority ?
https://ee.co.uk/business/large/esn/esn-ee/

It might become obsolete before it's launched !
Last edited by Markymark on 30 July 2020 11:31am
MA
Markymark
noggin posted:
thegeek posted:

I don't know how scalable that would be for DTH though - perhaps some sort of multicast stream to subscribe to for linear channels?


ATSC 3.0 in the US is based on multicast IP, albeit delivered over RF channels allocated to TV. I wonder how similar a 5G approach might be.


So we could end up with the ex broadcast spectrum being used for (probably) less efficient multicast delivery !
TV
TVXLL
I believe that Sky Arts will probably replace Challenge, but I also have other ideas. For example, I think they should either replace 5USA +1's former spot, Pick +1 (since sky already owns it) or CCXTV. I also think they will launch a +1 channel (replacing a former +1 channel) and a HD channel for it. Sky Arts will be a great edition to freeview.
NG
noggin Founding member
Markymark posted:

Aren't EE essentially adding a layer to their 4G network for the (very delayed) ESN (Emergency Services Network) with similar features of traffic priority ?
https://ee.co.uk/business/large/esn/esn-ee/

It might become obsolete before it's launched !


AIUI it's not even able to feature-match the current Tetra Emergency Service system...

17 days later

PF
PFML84
Someone has contacted Sky Viewer Relations and they have confirmed that Sky Arts will not affect Pick or Challenge on Freeview, so both are staying thankfully.
ST
Ste Founding member
PFMC84 posted:
Someone has contacted Sky Viewer Relations and they have confirmed that Sky Arts will not affect Pick or Challenge on Freeview, so both are staying thankfully.


A poster on Digitalspy also points out that in the "Multiplex licence changes – letters of consent" section of https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/tv-broadcast-licences/changes-to-tv-broadcast-licences on the Ofcom site there is a letter from Arqiva requesting a change of license to allow 4 Sky services on Multiplex C and a reply from Ofcom permitting that.
Juicy Joe, PFML84 and steveboswell gave kudos
GO
gottago
Confirmed at Edinburgh TV Fest that Sky Arts will be on Freeview channel 11 so presumably Pick will be on 34.

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