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That's TV Scotland Review

(October 2018)

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ET
ethanh05
I made the catastrophic mistake of tuning in just to see how bad their 'news' coverage is. Jesus wept, is the presenter presenting from a cupboard? The 'news' presenter was English, so I'm guessing the Scotland channel doesn't actually have anyone based up here for the news programmes?

I actually want to vent my anger at them and basically say to them, away and take a look at how STV2 did it and then come back with some sort of output that's actually broadcast-able and that makes sense.

Do they actually have any 'live' news output or is everything recorded?

Are they this bad in England and Wales?


Again, 24 peas.

That's TV in general isn't even the best local operator, so how they got the Scotland license was beyond me. Also, is looking at STV2 really a good idea? The channel ended before it even started properly.
:-(
A former member
STV sold it to Thats TV, STV2 had over a year... Before that Glasgow had 2 1/2 years and Edinburgh 2 years so it had enough time.
GM
Gary McEwan
I made the catastrophic mistake of tuning in just to see how bad their 'news' coverage is. Jesus wept, is the presenter presenting from a cupboard? The 'news' presenter was English, so I'm guessing the Scotland channel doesn't actually have anyone based up here for the news programmes?

I actually want to vent my anger at them and basically say to them, away and take a look at how STV2 did it and then come back with some sort of output that's actually broadcast-able and that makes sense.

Do they actually have any 'live' news output or is everything recorded?

Are they this bad in England and Wales?


Again, 24 peas.

That's TV in general isn't even the best local operator, so how they got the Scotland license was beyond me. Also, is looking at STV2 really a good idea? The channel ended before it even started properly.


Absolutely, STV2 at least some effort into its output. Not only utilising it's own newsroom and staff, but also partnering up with ITN for STV News Tonight. I don't think any of the other local channels can claim do have done that.

STV2 I think went above and beyond in terms of news provision compared to what we've got now.
MI
Mike516
Interesting development this evening confirming That's TV Scotland is benefiting from BBC money.

This is interesting because of the following:
- money is only available for the first three years of operation
- only stations that launched by 31st July 2017 qualify; the scheme stops three years after the deadline in 2020.
- the original holder of the licences, STV, declined BBC money, as accepting funds would have meant it sending news material to its biggest rival.

To understand what is happening, we need to look past the fact that That’s TV Scotland (and indeed STV2 before it) is a single service. In fact, there are five Ofcom L-DTPS licences underpinning this service for each of the areas it broadcasts on Freeview. A service is entitled to money based on its L-DTPS licence and when it launched.

Glasgow and Edinburgh have been on-air for over three years, so wouldn't qualify for funds. That a new channel has taken over wouldn't matter - Birmingham and Liverpool didn't get to start their funding from year 1 when they were taken over by Made TV.

Aberdeen, Ayr and Dundee are still within three years of their launch, and they all launched before 31st July 2017, so on that basis the holder of these three L-DTPS licences is entitled to be receiving three lots of money from the BBC for news content. STV was the original licence holder for these three areas, but as we know, it didn't want to accept BBC money with strings attached. But given That's TV Scotland is a new service that launched after 31st July 2017, can the money still be paid out?

Here's a bit of a trick: take Ayr for example. The L-DTPS licence was held by STV Ayr Ltd, not STV plc itself. In fact, for viewers in Ayr it was effectively STV Ayr Ltd, trading as STV2.

The twist? That company is still technically the licence holder. That's Media Ltd acquired STV Ayr Ltd in June 2018. It then renamed the company "Local Television Ayr Ltd". Actually this happened before STV2 closed, according to Companies House information. From a regulatory point of view, the licence itself has not changed hands from STV to That's Media, even if the company that holds the licence has changed hands. Therefore no need for Ofcom to intervene, as it did with the Birmingham local TV transfer from Big Centre to Made TV.

Cruically, That’s TV Scotland isn't disqualified because it launched after the July 2017 deadline. Although as far as we're concerned it is a brand new channel, from a regulatory point of view it's the continuation of the original licensed service under a different trading name.

Accounts for STV Ayr Ltd/Local Television Ayr Ltd show that it made a loss in the year ending 31st December 2017. Looking at its loss in 2017 (- £12,000), and how much it could have got from the BBC (+£150,000), we can see that there's still money to be made, although the amount for the second and third year decreases.

And it appears That's TV have made that calculation and have, based on the aforementioned technicality, tapped into the last remaining BBC funding it can access for the 3 newer licence areas for the outstanding part of the first three years in operation.

Ultimately, the only way this can be sustained is by running the channel on next to nothing, and this is what appears to be happening, as evidenced by comments on this forum.

It is however not clear if the material being sent to the BBC is for the three new areas or for the whole of Scotland. I can't see any stipulation that the news material being bought by the BBC has to be from a particular geographical area linked to the L-DTPS licence - and I suppose no-one ever sought to specify this as there would have been an assumption when this scheme was being devised that each licence would be connected to a TV channel that would only cover its local area, not a channel that broadcasts a single service on the back of several licences.

That's TV is of course well known for exploiting the rules to the max, and was responsible for rushing That's TV N Yorks on air within hours of the funding deadline on 31st July 2017, after lengthy delays in getting the channel operational.

Further reference material: BBC Local TV funding information http://www.bbc.co.uk/corporate2/insidethebbc/howwework/reports/localtv.html
Companies House
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC488509
SP
Spencer
Hyper local advertising was supposed to be one of the advantages of these channels and at launch some of the more credible offerings, who have since sold out to That's TV, were offering making the ads as part of their service - something I'd have thought is way beyond the capabilities of That's TV.


Although that situation is hypothetical, as they'd first need to find someone wanting to pay to advertise to an audience of zero in the middle of unwatchable programming.

I somehow doubt they've got a queue of advertisers knocking their door down.
LH
lhx1985
Manchester's RSL station, Channel M, always managed to have a full roster of local advertisers - even with a weak analogue signal. Proves that with the right sales team and a couple of creative types on your team it can certainly be done.

It's a shame that GMG/MEN (now Reach) lost faith in Channel M and stopped bank-rolling it just before DSO. I really think that their format and backroom ream, combined with freeview coverage would have set the station apart.

That's Scotland (That's Anywhere, really) are so obviously not interested in the mere concept of local television. This is a shoddy outfit providing the minimum level of effort permissible under the terms of their licence to unlock easier national forms of advertising and milk the BBC.

They've run rings around the regulator who have bent over backwards to pander to cries of 'difficult operating conditions' in a bid to prevent headlines of local TV failure.

The mere fact that you have multiple 'local' television channels in Scotland, all showing identical programming just underscores how patheitc the execution of this entire project has become. - And I still believe in the concept of local television being a) worthwhile and b) potentially profitable.
SP
Spencer
Manchester's RSL station, Channel M, always managed to have a full roster of local advertisers - even with a weak analogue signal. Proves that with the right sales team and a couple of creative types on your team it can certainly be done.


But that was mostly in an era of much less competition when far fewer people had multi-channel TV, and internet advertising wasn't massive like it is now, and yet they still made a loss.
LH
lhx1985
But nobody was ever really going to be looking at these channels for entertainment programming. That's where the competition is.

They'd still have a monopoly in local TV news, if only they really tried to be a news provider. If they could do that well and 'own' their patch, then things could be different.
DO
dosxuk
They'd still have a monopoly in local TV news, if only they really tried to be a news provider. If they could do that well and 'own' their patch, then things could be different.


But that's expensive and needs a pool of talented staff. And these channels have shown zero interest in investing in either.
LH
lhx1985
You've got me there!
It's very clear there's no appetite to invest in these channels now.

I do wonder if they focused on a three hour block during breakfast, if they could harvest enough content to keep the rest of the day running on an automated Euronews/ny1 format with a few updates and minimal cost.
JA
james-2001
I wonder if they'll last once the licence fee money's all gone?
SP
Spencer
They'd still have a monopoly in local TV news, if only they really tried to be a news provider. If they could do that well and 'own' their patch, then things could be different.


But that's expensive and needs a pool of talented staff. And these channels have shown zero interest in investing in either.


The fundamental problem is that there’s simply no money in local advertising to sustain these channels.

As internet advertising has grown exponentially over the past ten years or so, all other local advertising sectors have been contracting. Long established, trusted players such as local radio and local newspapers have been desperately struggling. Trying to gain a foothold in the local advertising market as a new name these days is incredibly difficult, unless your overheads are absolutely rock bottom.

You might stand a chance if you’re posting a new, free ‘ad-mag’ through everybody’s letterbox in the area that they can’t ignore, even if it does go straight in the recycling bin.

But to launch a new TV channel, you’re asking people to make a choice to actively switch over from whatever they’re already watching.

To do that, you’ve got to give people a really good reason to choose your channel over the hundreds of others competing, and amongst which you’re hidden in the EPG. And that’s assuming you’re watching the TV in the first place and not flicking through Facebook on your phone.

You’re never going to get people to switch to you on a regular basis with a sub-amateur local news service. Local news is already widely available online and on the radio, and if you really need to see it on a larger screen, BBC and ITV regional news cover anything vaguely important going on. So being ‘the only local TV news provider’ in the area counts for nothing.

Even if you did invest enough money in the service to make a professional, credible local TV channel, you’re still trying to take a slice of the same, dwindling local advertising cake for funding. Channel M, which was probably the best local TV channel we’ve ever had in this country, only survived because the Guardian Media Group was able to prop it up, but it couldn’t make money, even in more favourable times.

Ultimately, the concept of local TV in this country at the present time is totally unsustainable and unviable, and if any of them is still going in 10 years time, it’ll be a miracle.
Last edited by Spencer on 27 October 2018 11:17pm

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