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Can you tell I really don't know what to call this topic. (January 2018)

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MA
Markymark
Before all of this (TCG), I can remember as a wee 10-year old anorak ('71), flipping between BBC1UHF Belmont, Emley Moor and Bilsdale. Sometimes there'd be a change, where (say) BBC1 Bisdale would go to bars and tone, whereas Emley and Belmont would stay with TCF and music.

Presumably, this was because the microwave cct up to Newcastle was needed to send material from Leeds, Manchester or London, and that an engineer at (BBC) Newcastle or Pontop Pike had made the switch from line to local pattern generator.

From the era, or a little later, there's something that I could never get my head around.

ITV's TCF came off slide-scanners in the main regional transmitter sites. So, Blisdale's would have come from Burnhope to Pontop Pike, and then RBR's to Bilsdale. Emley Moor naturally had its own slide-scanner, and Belmont's TCF came from Mendlesham (microwave) to Tacolneston and RBL via Massingham/Winceby.

OK. But after '74 Belmont was re-assigned to Yorkshire Television. It couldn't have RBR'd Emley Moor's TCF because local Belmont content was originated from YTV (7 mins in Calendar and the Belmont Weather Forcast**). (** Itself one of these contributions that would have taken ITV/IBA resource to transfer via the PO London, Birmingham and Manchester switching matrices hopefully straight from the studio floor in Norwich to a VT machine at YTV.)

This meant that Belmont *had* to be microwave fed. So, how did Belmont get TCF?

Did Emley Moor trombone Belmont's feed back to Tinshill, then Upton/Farley? Even though Emley is a massive stable structure, and los to Belmont, I can't believe that the IBA had their own microwave route (single-hop) Emley Moor to Belmont. Or, perhaps YTV fed Belmont directly, and the IBA used a remote switch at Belmont to take Emley via an off-air receiver and thus show TCF?


They (the IBA) would have probably had two separate programme chains via their Colour Control Room (CCR) at
Emley. So two separate lines out of YTV to Emley, and a link/line onward from Emley to Belmont.

I've seen lines diagrams for Southern TV, that show similar arrangements to feed Rowridge and Dover (via the CCR at Chillerton Down). Yes, Southern TV Dover didn't/couldn't [1] directly feed the Dover Tx, their output went
via Northam (Southampton), because Northam played out both sets of East/West ads anyway

[1] Dover studios had local ends to GPO/BT Tolsford Hill, as did Dover Tx, so in an extreme case of Northam burning to the ground etc, Dover studio could have been patched directly by the GPO to the Tx
CO
commseng
In late-1970s and early-1980s terms...

- There are two key items here: (a) Network Distribution Feeds (NDF); (b) What gets sent out from the transmitter sites. From what I can glean, there is a main and reserve NDF. Both main and reserve NDFs are channelled through each BBC regional centre across the country. Ordinarily, the main NDF will carry Network BBC One and Network BBC Two output. As our CAR engineer hinted at, the reserve NDF could, theoretically be used for other purposes (such as programme transfer material. However, he suggests that if the reserve NDF is "busy" (not sure what kind of content it would've been carrying), then the main NDF would have to be used for programme transfers.

- The London Switching Centre - which is what I assume LO SWC stands for (pardon my ignorance) - can presumably switch the content of the NDF to any part of the country? So, if for example, LO SWC changed the main NDF to Birmingham to carry a programme that needs to be recorded in certain regional centres, every other regional centre that follows Birmingham in the NDF chain would also receive that programme on their NDF?

- Because the main NDF of BBC One and BBC Two is generally what is routed to transmitters across the country, some sort of intervention needs to occur to prevent the "programme transfer" material (which is now being sent down the NDF) being seen by viewers at home. Our CAR engineer mentioned LO SWC having "opt-out" capabilities. So: (a) could LO SWC also switch the transmitter output in those affected regions to a different source (say a Test Card G, originating in Birmingham); (b) is it only at the regional centres that the output from the transmitter can be overridden (in the same way that they do for a local news opt)?

First point - there was not a main and spare distribution network.
There was a main and reserve feed of BBC 1 and BBC 2 from TVC to LO SWC only.
Crystal Palace usually sat on the main feed and the lines North South and West sat on the reserve.
Any chain could be switched to the other feed, or to another circuit via the matrix.
Crucially there was then only one line per network heading North South and West.
I can not overstate how expensive video circuits were.
I was on shift once around the 1 o'clock news time, and had a panic EMX call from a colleague in Manchester,
"I have lost both BBC 1 and 2 into me."
All I could do was feed BBC 1 into the Reverse Contribution circuit.
This was a video circuit from LO SWC to Birmingham, and then another line from Birmingham to Manchester.
That didn't work either.
It turned out that there had been a power failure in Pebble Mill Comms Centre.
They got BT (NSC or Anchor exchange in Birmingham) to patch the incoming network feed to them directly to the Manchester lines and take Pebble Mill out of the loop. Obviously the Midlands transmitters had to rely on RBR until the power was back, but everything north of that was OK.
I think you are confused that the Reverse Contribution (so named as most contribution feeds went into London, this one went from London) was a reserve feed. It was not, but it could be used if required, it just needed to be switched.

Second point, (yes LO SWC was London Switching Centre at Broadcasting House - here is the pulse and bar test signal https://www.flickr.com/photos/115059469@N03/12857014993, and here is a photo of a much younger and thinner engineer sat at the desk in there https://www.flickr.com/photos/115059469@N03/12857657534 - the network switching bit is just behind me).
All I can do is switch the outgoing feeds from me. I could not change what leaves Birmingham, Pebble Mill's Comms area did that.
They could route test signals to the feeds from them if for example we were sending material only as far as Birmingham on network distribution.

Third point - yes, it was only the feeds from the Comms Centres / CTA that went to the transmitters. No, LO SWC could only change the feeds leaving London.
I hope that helps!
Steve in Pudsey and Hatton Cross gave kudos
MA
Markymark

I can not overstate how expensive video circuits were.


During the GPO era, one vision circuit was charged at the cumulative rate of the number of truck phone circuits (aka revenue) it displaced, which was 960 (and no bulk discount). A national morning (08:00 to 13:00hrs) truck call back then was in the order of 15 to 20p a minute, so you were possibly dealing with a cost of 100 quid a minute for a vision circuit (at 1970/early 80s prices too !)
Steve in Pudsey and commseng gave kudos
CO
commseng
The assumption at the moment is the programme material being sent down the line is predominantly news-related stuff - clean clips of interviews etc. I just automatically assumed that BBC Two Pres played out this programme transfer material on the usual network feed of BBC Two and that the feed to the Crystal Palace transmitter was switched to something else (e.g., TCF or TCG) whilst this was happening. What pushes me towards this theory was that in that YT clip, why would Pres in London bother fading out the music at 4pm and replace it with tone? It's as if they were readying themselves for something and were perhaps in control of what was about to be sent down the line to the regions. Pure speculation.

But with respect to transmitters beyond the reach of Crystal Palace and prior to Birmingham in the chain, I'm curious about what happened there. From Charles' letter, it sounds as though BBC Wales intervened where BBC West was concerned.

Network Pres would have been aware that there was going to be a feed on the distribution, but you are wrong to assume it was sent down the network circuits into BH. BH (LO SWC) switched the outgoing line to a different feed with the wanted material on.
It is possible that to make this look less obtrusive Pres took the music away with a fade beforehand. It was a hard switch of vision and sound so a fade would not be possible, nor anything else arty in the CTAs / Comms Centres / LO SWC.

As for Bristol's feed from Cardiff - this would have been possible using the Cardiff to Bristol contribution circuit that would have normally also been extended from Bristol to London, assuming it wasn't already in use for other things.
BL
bluecortina
In late-1970s and early-1980s terms...

- There are two key items here: (a) Network Distribution Feeds (NDF); (b) What gets sent out from the transmitter sites. From what I can glean, there is a main and reserve NDF. Both main and reserve NDFs are channelled through each BBC regional centre across the country. Ordinarily, the main NDF will carry Network BBC One and Network BBC Two output. As our CAR engineer hinted at, the reserve NDF could, theoretically be used for other purposes (such as programme transfer material. However, he suggests that if the reserve NDF is "busy" (not sure what kind of content it would've been carrying), then the main NDF would have to be used for programme transfers.

- The London Switching Centre - which is what I assume LO SWC stands for (pardon my ignorance) - can presumably switch the content of the NDF to any part of the country? So, if for example, LO SWC changed the main NDF to Birmingham to carry a programme that needs to be recorded in certain regional centres, every other regional centre that follows Birmingham in the NDF chain would also receive that programme on their NDF?

- Because the main NDF of BBC One and BBC Two is generally what is routed to transmitters across the country, some sort of intervention needs to occur to prevent the "programme transfer" material (which is now being sent down the NDF) being seen by viewers at home. Our CAR engineer mentioned LO SWC having "opt-out" capabilities. So: (a) could LO SWC also switch the transmitter output in those affected regions to a different source (say a Test Card G, originating in Birmingham); (b) is it only at the regional centres that the output from the transmitter can be overridden (in the same way that they do for a local news opt)?

First point - there was not a main and spare distribution network.
There was a main and reserve feed of BBC 1 and BBC 2 from TVC to LO SWC only.
Crystal Palace usually sat on the main feed and the lines North South and West sat on the reserve.
Any chain could be switched to the other feed, or to another circuit via the matrix.
Crucially there was then only one line per network heading North South and West.
I can not overstate how expensive video circuits were.
I was on shift once around the 1 o'clock news time, and had a panic EMX call from a colleague in Manchester,
"I have lost both BBC 1 and 2 into me."
All I could do was feed BBC 1 into the Reverse Contribution circuit.
This was a video circuit from LO SWC to Birmingham, and then another line from Birmingham to Manchester.
That didn't work either.
It turned out that there had been a power failure in Pebble Mill Comms Centre.
They got BT (NSC or Anchor exchange in Birmingham) to patch the incoming network feed to them directly to the Manchester lines and take Pebble Mill out of the loop. Obviously the Midlands transmitters had to rely on RBR until the power was back, but everything north of that was OK.
I think you are confused that the Reverse Contribution (so named as most contribution feeds went into London, this one went from London) was a reserve feed. It was not, but it could be used if required, it just needed to be switched.

Second point, (yes LO SWC was London Switching Centre at Broadcasting House - here is the pulse and bar test signal https://www.flickr.com/photos/115059469@N03/12857014993, and here is a photo of a much younger and thinner engineer sat at the desk in there https://www.flickr.com/photos/115059469@N03/12857657534 - the network switching bit is just behind me).
All I can do is switch the outgoing feeds from me. I could not change what leaves Birmingham, Pebble Mill's Comms area did that.
They could route test signals to the feeds from them if for example we were sending material only as far as Birmingham on network distribution.

Third point - yes, it was only the feeds from the Comms Centres / CTA that went to the transmitters. No, LO SWC could only change the feeds leaving London.
I hope that helps!


I presume you are filling in your overtime sheet for the week?
CO
commseng
I presume you are filling in your overtime sheet for the week?

Ha! if only.....
The shift for the engineers was a fixed one, with little chance for overtime, unless a colleague went sick.
The way the bookings worked is we had a sheet for each quarter of an hour, showing what to switch when.
The bookings arrived from Circuit Allocation Unit (CAU) on the teleprinter to all the engineering areas affected by each switch, and you wrote them onto the correct page.
Somehow that day the printer got turned off in error, and after an hour we started to get questions as to why things hadn't been switched.
Then we realised how little had come off the printer in the last hour......
CL
Closedown
[ On the odd occasion where they had a local closedown during daytime hours, they typically resorted to black + tone. I have vague memories of them using their pulse and bar on at least one occasion. But apart from that, no test card. Colour bars as a test signal was Ulster Television's style.



You've inadvertently answered a long standing question of mine, The Times archive tv listings refers to 'Transmitters Closedown' on BBC1 NI from time to time - typically when a Welsh language programme is airing in England. Did wonder whether the transmitters were literally powered down and then up half an hour later, which would have been fiddly to say the least. Although I seem to think that BBC2 transmitters at one stage in the seventies were literally off for several hours between Play School and the afternoon/evening programme session as a cost-cutting measure.
TC
TonyCurrie
[ On the odd occasion where they had a local closedown during daytime hours, they typically resorted to black + tone. I have vague memories of them using their pulse and bar on at least one occasion. But apart from that, no test card. Colour bars as a test signal was Ulster Television's style.



You've inadvertently answered a long standing question of mine, The Times archive tv listings refers to 'Transmitters Closedown' on BBC1 NI from time to time - typically when a Welsh language programme is airing in England. Did wonder whether the transmitters were literally powered down and then up half an hour later, which would have been fiddly to say the least. Although I seem to think that BBC2 transmitters at one stage in the seventies were literally off for several hours between Play School and the afternoon/evening programme session as a cost-cutting measure.


For many years there was a "closedown" at 1pm when Trade Transmissions stopped for lunch. Many transmitters took Welsh language programmes between 1pm and 1.30, when all transmitters then took a programme feed. Those stations that didn't take the Welsh programmes (Scotland, Northern Ireland and some other transmitters including Sandale) would continue test card to 1pm (the others went into a start of programmes sequence around 12.58 ) and then go to black and silence until they opted-in to the 1.30 programme.
MA
Markymark
Although I seem to think that BBC2 transmitters at one stage in the seventies were literally off for several hours between Play School and the afternoon/evening programme session as a cost-cutting measure.


Yes, that's right, from about 1978 until summer 1982. It was the imminent launch of C4 that
led to their reinstatement. The TV aerial trade were already annoyed by the lack of BBC 2 during most of
the day. Installing aerial and aerial systems properly requires the the presence of all available transmissions, to ensure all are being received correctly. Having only BBC 1 and ITV available did rather
hamper that. I don't know whether the IBA or the trade, or both lobbied the Beeb, but all day BBC 2 transmissions commenced again summer 1982, exactly when C4 test transmissions started. The BBC gave that as the reason for the re instatement in press releases.

(Of course Tennis and Cricket etc coverage still meant BBC 2 was alive on some days during summer)

8 days later

SP
Steve in Pudsey
I think this might help clear up the original question - 1985/6 vintage network routings

http://txlib.mb21.co.uk/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4001

So firstly, it seems that English regions didn't do opt outs on BBC2 until late 1986 so until then the circuits only went to the "big" centres with switching centres (eg Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol plus the nations) not the "smaller" centres (I think they are called Island sites in BBC parlance?)

Page 12 shows how the network got from Manchester to BT Carlisle, from where there were seperate BBC2 circuits to Belfast, Glasgow, Pontop Pike and Caldbeck.

At BT Carlisle, there were switching facilities under the control of BBC Manchester shown on page 32. On the BBC2 side, there was the main distribution circuit from Manchester and a "new circuit" which could be fed to various destinations.

So, to get a feed from London to Glasgow via the distribution circuit, it seems that the arrangement would be:

Manchester put test card on BBC2 distribution to all destinations including Carlisle
Feed incoming network into the "new circuit" to Carlisle
Make sure Glasgow has opted out
Switch New circuit onto Glasgow circuit at Carlisle

Therefore the Test Card G appearing in Northern Ireland would have originated in Manchester.

Some other interesting points from the documents - in that era some of the regional centres were only connected to the transmitters at opt out times, so the circuits were available for contributions. Others, like Leeds, could be bypassed by BT so the feed from Manchester could be sent directly to the transmitters, freeing up the circuits, so presumably if there was material being fed to Leeds via the distribution circuits, that's how they would have done it.
Last edited by Steve in Pudsey on 17 January 2018 11:30pm
Markymark and deejay gave kudos
JV
James Vertigan Founding member
Not sure if this has been raised before on TVF...

...two BBC Scotland closedowns appeared on a YouTube channel a few years back: one for BBC One Scotland and one for BBC Two Scotland:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDekeZBD4o

The rather odd thing about these clips is that closedown is quickly followed by the appearance of Testcard G - and even more bizarrely for the time of day, is accompanied by music. There's a slightly odd transition to testcard in each clip too.


Not only that, but on BBC1 the test card appears to be subtitled - at least according to the ident that preceded it!
JA
james-2001
Not only that, but on BBC1 the test card appears to be subtitled - at least according to the ident that preceded it!


[beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep]

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