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Graphics out of safe-area (January 2012)

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MA
Markymark
Inspector Sands posted:


Isn't it in 14:9 on analogue? Not many set top boxes give you that option


Quite a few Freeview boxes do actually, even the 20 quid supermarket models.

Sky boxes will only do 4:3CCO or 16L12, no AFDs on UK satellite broadcasts, to be able to define 14:9 mode.
DA
David
chris posted:
I don't know where this myth of 4:3 safe areas being redundant after the digital switchover has come from. For instance, I have a portable, flat screen but not widescreen television which is about seven years old. It works perfectly fine so why should I replace it? I have a Freeview box hooked up to it. I suspect I'm far from the minority in this country.


Doesn't your Freeview box let you output 16:9 with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen? I'm sure it does and I'm sure you know how to configure it. Other people may not know how to change their settings and may not even realise that they are already missing the sides of their picture. Channels going 16:9 safe (especially when it comes to graphics) at the same time as digital switch over is the perfect opportunity for viewers to be educated about the fact that they are missing the sides of their pictures and what they can do about it if they choose to. There are various digital switch over help schemes available at the moment so this really is the perfect time.

chris posted:
Some may argue that people need to move with the times but there are people who simply cannot afford to replace all their non-widescreen televisions. Why should they have to suffer?


I only have one TV in my flat. It is a 4:3 CRT. I don't feel I am suffering.

chris posted:
Yes, some things can be acceptable outside the safe area. For instance, when the News 24 clock went outside the safe areas for a brief time in 2007. There are clocks everywhere, including on EPGs. That doesn't hinder your ability to catch up on the news. Extending the graphics outside of the safe areas however would.


Most people have the choice to cut the sides off or not. Later this year, everyone will have that choice. This can only be a good thing.
VM
VMPhil
Markymark posted:
With all due respect, anybody buying a new TV set after 1998, should have future proofed themselves with a 16:9 model, 4:3 has been on the way out for 14 years.

I'm pretty sure widescreen models were a bit pricier back then and most of them were iDTVs (now known as Freeview Built-in) which cost a fortune.
IS
Inspector Sands
Markymark posted:
Quite a few Freeview boxes do actually, even the 20 quid supermarket models.

I've never seen one, do they switch into 4:3 for 4:3 programmes?
ES
Ebeneezer Scrooge
As long as boxes are still made that will do 4:3 centre cut out and people are watching on 4:3 sets, broadcasters should be making their graphics safe. If for no other reason, 4:3 viewers shouldn't have to put up with a lower vertical resolution on the already relatively poor DTT quality.

The myth about safe areas being irrelevant after DSO is a confusion from them not being necessary on HD.
IS
Inspector Sands
VirginMediaPhil posted:
Markymark posted:
With all due respect, anybody buying a new TV set after 1998, should have future proofed themselves with a 16:9 model, 4:3 has been on the way out for 14 years.

I'm pretty sure widescreen models were a bit pricier back then and most of them were iDTVs (now known as Freeview Built-in) which cost a fortune.

I knew someone who had an IDTV in 1999/2000 and it was essentially just a telly with the contents of an ONdigital box inside it, it was quite an expensive purchase and didn't last long apparently (of course even if it did the digital tuner wouldn't have worked after switchover).

There were still 4:3 sets being sold until fairly recently as were 16:9 analogue only sets. What would have been ideal would have been at a certain point to mandate that no non-digital sets could be sold
IS
Inspector Sands
Ebeneezer Scrooge posted:
As long as boxes are still made that will do 4:3 centre cut out and people are watching on 4:3 sets, broadcasters should be making their graphics safe. If for no other reason, 4:3 viewers shouldn't have to put up with a lower vertical resolution on the already relatively poor DTT quality.

Surely in CCO they get a lower horizontal resolution?
ES
Ebeneezer Scrooge
No, it will be "pixel per pixel" with the extra pixels at the edge cut off.
MA
Markymark
Inspector Sands posted:
Markymark posted:
Quite a few Freeview boxes do actually, even the 20 quid supermarket models.

I've never seen one, do they switch into 4:3 for 4:3 programmes?


Yep ! They follow the broadcaster AFDs so for instance on US series shown by C4, they are usually forced into 16:9 letterbox.,
MA
Markymark
Ebeneezer Scrooge posted:
As long as boxes are still made that will do 4:3 centre cut out and people are watching on 4:3 sets, broadcasters should be making their graphics safe.


And at what point do we give up, when there's 100k viewers left, or 1000, or not until every last person has got a 16:9 display ?
DV
DVB Cornwall
The Ski Sunday Graphics on the 'as live' action also are full 16:9, incidentally.
My twopenneth is that this safe area nonsense should have been ditched years ago, as I have mentioned previously. The end of DSO should be the absolute end of special treatment, All areas will then be transmitting 16:9 as standard. If the viewer chooses not to update their receivers to accommodate then those who have should not be put at a disadvantage.
ES
Ebeneezer Scrooge
Markymark posted:
Ebeneezer Scrooge posted:
As long as boxes are still made that will do 4:3 centre cut out and people are watching on 4:3 sets, broadcasters should be making their graphics safe.


And at what point do we give up, when there's 100k viewers left, or 1000, or not until every last person has got a 16:9 display ?


On the HD changeover. Safe areas cause no problems.

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