DE
It was nothing to do with the move to widescreen (though the stipulation was that it should be centred) and I think it predated the opening of widescreen transmission by some months (possibly even a year).
It was all to do with Marketing and IMO a very shrewd move by the BBC. They rightly saw that with many of its programmes were being sold overseas, repeated on other channels and watched on the internet rather than on BBC Branded channels and so to emphasise the fact that it was a BBC product, it decided to brand the programmes themselves. When it first appeared on programmes it looked extremely odd and I remember it even caused the Network Director on duty that evening to specifically announce on regional talkback that a programme titles logo was due to appear on air and that it was nothing for the regions to worry about!
Now, no matter where you watch a programme on whatever channel, you get a clear indication that it's a BBC product. It's as brilliant a piece of marketing as the 5-colour stripe flash between ads that the original Channel 5 used which hadn't been routinely used on commercial channels up to that point (there had been flashes in and out of breaks AIUI but not between ads - unless Rediffusion's Adastral and TVS's flash was used in such a way too?)
As far as I know there are no plans to drop the BBC logo during Titles. Marketing rules are always being disobeyed (often by Marketing teams themselves) and I'm sure someone somewhere has decided that the drop shadow on EastEnders is OK.
The BBC logo was added for help with widescreen broadcasts. Most shows have the BBC logo in the centre on the bottom of the screen. If this logo was out of the centre, there was something wrong with your picture. I don't think it was intended for consumers, but technicians and broadcasters. Programmes that weren't widescreen still used it, although EastEnders put it in the top-left for a short period before the new title sequence in 1999 also moved the logo into the centre signalling the move to widescreen.
Now that most, if not all, programmes are in widescreen the BBC logo is put wherever on the screen or not used at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it was being phased out.
Now that most, if not all, programmes are in widescreen the BBC logo is put wherever on the screen or not used at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it was being phased out.
It was nothing to do with the move to widescreen (though the stipulation was that it should be centred) and I think it predated the opening of widescreen transmission by some months (possibly even a year).
It was all to do with Marketing and IMO a very shrewd move by the BBC. They rightly saw that with many of its programmes were being sold overseas, repeated on other channels and watched on the internet rather than on BBC Branded channels and so to emphasise the fact that it was a BBC product, it decided to brand the programmes themselves. When it first appeared on programmes it looked extremely odd and I remember it even caused the Network Director on duty that evening to specifically announce on regional talkback that a programme titles logo was due to appear on air and that it was nothing for the regions to worry about!
Now, no matter where you watch a programme on whatever channel, you get a clear indication that it's a BBC product. It's as brilliant a piece of marketing as the 5-colour stripe flash between ads that the original Channel 5 used which hadn't been routinely used on commercial channels up to that point (there had been flashes in and out of breaks AIUI but not between ads - unless Rediffusion's Adastral and TVS's flash was used in such a way too?)
As far as I know there are no plans to drop the BBC logo during Titles. Marketing rules are always being disobeyed (often by Marketing teams themselves) and I'm sure someone somewhere has decided that the drop shadow on EastEnders is OK.
ST
How did that work exactly? Surely a logo in the centre of the screen would still appear in the centre whether you had your widescreen TV set up correctly or not?
The BBC logo was added for help with widescreen broadcasts. Most shows have the BBC logo in the centre on the bottom of the screen. If this logo was out of the centre, there was something wrong with your picture.
How did that work exactly? Surely a logo in the centre of the screen would still appear in the centre whether you had your widescreen TV set up correctly or not?
NG
Sorry - that is not the case.
The BBC logo during the opening titles was a requirement not for widescreen reasons, but for branding reasons. The BBC realised that lots of people were watching BBC shows on other non-BBC outlets (UK Gold etc.) and wanted to reinforce the fact that these shows were still made by the BBC even if not watched on a BBC outlet. They also realised that in a multichannel (analogue at the time - but digital was imminent) world, people would be less aware of what channel they were watching (particularly on channels without permanent DOGs) and wanted people to realise they were watching (live or recorded) a BBC show.
The introduction of the BBC logo on titles co-incided with the introduction of the simplified square Lambie Nairn designed logo, which replaced the more complex angled logo (with the three flashes - sometimes coloured) which was difficult to render at small sizes and expensive to render properly in colour. This happened in 1997, at least a year (18 months?) before digital broadcasting started - and when all BBC outlets were still 4:3. (News 24 launched with the square logo, and was the first fully 16:9 production area but only broadcast in 14:9 letterbox in 4:3 on analogue cable and BBC One overnight for the first 12 months)
noggin
Founding member
The BBC logo was added for help with widescreen broadcasts. Most shows have the BBC logo in the centre on the bottom of the screen. If this logo was out of the centre, there was something wrong with your picture. I don't think it was intended for consumers, but technicians and broadcasters. Programmes that weren't widescreen still used it, although EastEnders put it in the top-left for a short period before the new title sequence in 1999 also moved the logo into the centre signalling the move to widescreen.
Now that most, if not all, programmes are in widescreen the BBC logo is put wherever on the screen or not used at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it was being phased out.
Now that most, if not all, programmes are in widescreen the BBC logo is put wherever on the screen or not used at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it was being phased out.
Sorry - that is not the case.
The BBC logo during the opening titles was a requirement not for widescreen reasons, but for branding reasons. The BBC realised that lots of people were watching BBC shows on other non-BBC outlets (UK Gold etc.) and wanted to reinforce the fact that these shows were still made by the BBC even if not watched on a BBC outlet. They also realised that in a multichannel (analogue at the time - but digital was imminent) world, people would be less aware of what channel they were watching (particularly on channels without permanent DOGs) and wanted people to realise they were watching (live or recorded) a BBC show.
The introduction of the BBC logo on titles co-incided with the introduction of the simplified square Lambie Nairn designed logo, which replaced the more complex angled logo (with the three flashes - sometimes coloured) which was difficult to render at small sizes and expensive to render properly in colour. This happened in 1997, at least a year (18 months?) before digital broadcasting started - and when all BBC outlets were still 4:3. (News 24 launched with the square logo, and was the first fully 16:9 production area but only broadcast in 14:9 letterbox in 4:3 on analogue cable and BBC One overnight for the first 12 months)
NG
noggin
Founding member
To answer the OP. AFAIK the official policy is that it IS still required. However since BBC Broadcast (aka Pres) is no longer part of the BBC and is now Red Bee Media, the logo policing that they sort of used to do (partially in their marketing role) appears to be pretty much un-enforced by the Marketinc. Communications and Audience dept...
The animation of the blocks has been happening since Andi Peters relaunched TOTP with the letterforms animating on separately.
Now that the BBC Productions logo (and the blocks of light BBC identity) do it I think the "no animation" rule must have been relaxed - officially or unofficially.
I've seen some horrendous uses of the core BBC logo of late - so I assume nobody is bothering to enforce any of the rules, or officially update them... Pity - as although some of Lambie Nairn's stuff is pretty uninspired - his logo rules were good and ensured it was always used effectively and cleanly.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
The animation of the blocks has been happening since Andi Peters relaunched TOTP with the letterforms animating on separately.
Now that the BBC Productions logo (and the blocks of light BBC identity) do it I think the "no animation" rule must have been relaxed - officially or unofficially.
I've seen some horrendous uses of the core BBC logo of late - so I assume nobody is bothering to enforce any of the rules, or officially update them... Pity - as although some of Lambie Nairn's stuff is pretty uninspired - his logo rules were good and ensured it was always used effectively and cleanly.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
MW
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
NG
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
Doctors and Land Girls are HD, PoV is SD. Wonder if they are edited in different areas... (Or whether the drama is edited off-site at the drama village?)
noggin
Founding member
.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
Doctors and Land Girls are HD, PoV is SD. Wonder if they are edited in different areas... (Or whether the drama is edited off-site at the drama village?)
PC
I think what you might be thinking about is the positioning of the channel logo in the bottom centre of the screen on idents and trails, which was the case in 1997 when the new channel packages launched. Prior to this the BBC logo had been on the left side of the screen on trails, which wouldn't have worked so well when the channels shifted over to widescreen.
My mistake then, I was sure that information was at least half-correct. I saw it on TV & Radio Bits I think.
I think what you might be thinking about is the positioning of the channel logo in the bottom centre of the screen on idents and trails, which was the case in 1997 when the new channel packages launched. Prior to this the BBC logo had been on the left side of the screen on trails, which wouldn't have worked so well when the channels shifted over to widescreen.
DE
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
A great example of this is on The Weakest Link. Sometimes it comes on properly, but most of the time the 'Productions' line appears first in Black then fades to White. Looks awful and bugs me rotten.
.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
A great example of this is on The Weakest Link. Sometimes it comes on properly, but most of the time the 'Productions' line appears first in Black then fades to White. Looks awful and bugs me rotten.
NG
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
A great example of this is on The Weakest Link. Sometimes it comes on properly, but most of the time the 'Productions' line appears first in Black then fades to White. Looks awful and bugs me rotten.
Yep - there should be a separate key/matte and fill roll I believe, but lots of people do a bad self-key...
noggin
Founding member
.
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
(Question : How often is the BBC Productions logo animation keyed badly? Answer : A lot of the time - probably because many editors don't understand additive vs multiplicative keying properly...)
*Cough* BBC Birmingham *cough*.
Gill Sans keyed that badly is just criminal. Only on Doctors or Land Girls mind, PoV and other progs are unaffected.
A great example of this is on The Weakest Link. Sometimes it comes on properly, but most of the time the 'Productions' line appears first in Black then fades to White. Looks awful and bugs me rotten.
Yep - there should be a separate key/matte and fill roll I believe, but lots of people do a bad self-key...
Last edited by noggin on 10 January 2010 10:09am
NG
I think what you might be thinking about is the positioning of the channel logo in the bottom centre of the screen on idents and trails, which was the case in 1997 when the new channel packages launched. Prior to this the BBC logo had been on the left side of the screen on trails, which wouldn't have worked so well when the channels shifted over to widescreen.
Yep - putting the logo centre of frame (rather than aligned left or right) means it works for both 4:3 and 16:9 viewers equally well.
noggin
Founding member
My mistake then, I was sure that information was at least half-correct. I saw it on TV & Radio Bits I think.
I think what you might be thinking about is the positioning of the channel logo in the bottom centre of the screen on idents and trails, which was the case in 1997 when the new channel packages launched. Prior to this the BBC logo had been on the left side of the screen on trails, which wouldn't have worked so well when the channels shifted over to widescreen.
Yep - putting the logo centre of frame (rather than aligned left or right) means it works for both 4:3 and 16:9 viewers equally well.