JU
Mmmm thinking the same thing haven't seen pillarboxing like this in a while. The only thing I can think is out of sensitvity they are showing the material as it was meant to be seen I.e not cropped, or zooomed in, but then the addition of the purple is a bit garish!
Anyone watching the TOTP 2 Jacko tribute special at the mo?
Looks strange with the purple bit either side doesn't it?
Wonder why they've done it this time, when previous 4:3 TOTP2's haven't had it done?
Looks strange with the purple bit either side doesn't it?
Wonder why they've done it this time, when previous 4:3 TOTP2's haven't had it done?
Mmmm thinking the same thing haven't seen pillarboxing like this in a while. The only thing I can think is out of sensitvity they are showing the material as it was meant to be seen I.e not cropped, or zooomed in, but then the addition of the purple is a bit garish!
JO
Cap:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/totppillarbox.jpg
Reminded me of the grim old days of Champions League football on ITV2, where 4:3 footage was pillarboxed with pale blue/silver stars rendering the game unwatchable.
I know no-one likes black borders but this really isn't a workable alternative. Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/totppillarbox.jpg
Reminded me of the grim old days of Champions League football on ITV2, where 4:3 footage was pillarboxed with pale blue/silver stars rendering the game unwatchable.
I know no-one likes black borders but this really isn't a workable alternative. Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
WE
Shame they couldn't find an extra few mins to show the entire 15 mins of 'Thriller'!
The one thing that annoys me about 'Thriller' the video, is that the audio track is edited differently to the single release.
You listen to both & see what I mean.
Where did 'Show You The Way To Go' come from, because I could've sworn there was a proper TOTP studio performance shown years ago on TOTP 2 & this wasn't it?
I'd be interested to know with the 'videos' whether the Beeb went to the trouble of finding the original separate clean insert tapes or 'lifted' them from the relavant TOTP original show? I guess the majority of the material shown was originally on TOTP in the first place! ('Thriller' was never shown due to it's content, was it?)
The one thing that annoys me about 'Thriller' the video, is that the audio track is edited differently to the single release.
You listen to both & see what I mean.
Where did 'Show You The Way To Go' come from, because I could've sworn there was a proper TOTP studio performance shown years ago on TOTP 2 & this wasn't it?
I'd be interested to know with the 'videos' whether the Beeb went to the trouble of finding the original separate clean insert tapes or 'lifted' them from the relavant TOTP original show? I guess the majority of the material shown was originally on TOTP in the first place! ('Thriller' was never shown due to it's content, was it?)
DA
What do you mean?
I think the only recent Michael Jackson show that has been in 4:3 has been the Channel 4 one. BBC Two's attempt was not how it was meant to be shown at all. I am using the phrase 'meant to be shown' to mean how it originally made, maybe there is another meaning of 'meant to be shown' that I am unaware of.
Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
What do you mean?
I think the only recent Michael Jackson show that has been in 4:3 has been the Channel 4 one. BBC Two's attempt was not how it was meant to be shown at all. I am using the phrase 'meant to be shown' to mean how it originally made, maybe there is another meaning of 'meant to be shown' that I am unaware of.
WE
What do you mean?
I think the only recent Michael Jackson show that has been in 4:3 has been the Channel 4 one. BBC Two's attempt was not how it was meant to be shown at all. I am using the phrase 'meant to be shown' to mean how it originally made, maybe there is another meaning of 'meant to be shown' that I am unaware of.
Surely they normally 'flick a switch' at the start of the prog for the aspect ratios, as in the past, the odd few mins have got transmitted in the wrong ratio, with the black borders round, before someone's noticed.
(Those of you who collected the original run of TOTP 2, check a transmission of Van Morrison's 'Moondance' promo film, as that starts out pillarboxed, then changes to 'normal' halfway through! There are probably other examples, but this one sprang to mind.)
Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
What do you mean?
I think the only recent Michael Jackson show that has been in 4:3 has been the Channel 4 one. BBC Two's attempt was not how it was meant to be shown at all. I am using the phrase 'meant to be shown' to mean how it originally made, maybe there is another meaning of 'meant to be shown' that I am unaware of.
Surely they normally 'flick a switch' at the start of the prog for the aspect ratios, as in the past, the odd few mins have got transmitted in the wrong ratio, with the black borders round, before someone's noticed.
(Those of you who collected the original run of TOTP 2, check a transmission of Van Morrison's 'Moondance' promo film, as that starts out pillarboxed, then changes to 'normal' halfway through! There are probably other examples, but this one sprang to mind.)
AS
What do you mean?
Not cropped I think is what was meant. Better to show it pillarboxed than cropped.
To be honest, best for me would be to have it proper 4:3, flag it as such and let my TV decide what it wants to do!
A little disappointed with the show too - if I wanted a load of videos I'd have gone on YouTube. Did he never perform in the studio (apart from with his brothers)?
Asa
Admin
Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
What do you mean?
Not cropped I think is what was meant. Better to show it pillarboxed than cropped.
To be honest, best for me would be to have it proper 4:3, flag it as such and let my TV decide what it wants to do!
A little disappointed with the show too - if I wanted a load of videos I'd have gone on YouTube. Did he never perform in the studio (apart from with his brothers)?
BR
C4 showed their tribute - a compilation of vids - in 4:3 last night, though on 4 Music it's cropped. As digital boxes are equipped to deal with 4:3 and change to the viewers preference, it's not necessary IMO.
Be interesting to know what the stats are now for the number of widescreen TVs vs the number of 4:3 TVs. Although I guess the majority of main sets may now be widescreen, I expect a significant number of second/third TV's are 4:3, especially portables.
Similar but different topic, but surprises me that sport is shown on analogue in 4:3. In the past it was understandable on things like Grandstand where parts of the programme may be 4:3, but nowadays virtually everything is in widescreen - certainly Wimbledon and any football broadcasts anyway.
Be interesting to know what the stats are now for the number of widescreen TVs vs the number of 4:3 TVs. Although I guess the majority of main sets may now be widescreen, I expect a significant number of second/third TV's are 4:3, especially portables.
Similar but different topic, but surprises me that sport is shown on analogue in 4:3. In the past it was understandable on things like Grandstand where parts of the programme may be 4:3, but nowadays virtually everything is in widescreen - certainly Wimbledon and any football broadcasts anyway.
WE
What do you mean?
Not cropped I think is what was meant. Better to show it pillarboxed than cropped.
To be honest, best for me would be to have it proper 4:3, flag it as such and let my TV decide what it wants to do!
A little disappointed with the show too - if I wanted a load of videos I'd have gone on YouTube. Did he never perform in the studio (apart from with his brothers)?
Nope he didn't, from memory.
That is your problem with yer overseas star, unless they made regular appearences on UKTV studio shows, which haven't been wiped, or subject to bloody stupid rights restrictions, it's videos or nothing!
Then again some UK stars were probably just as bad. (The Clash spring to mind as regards TOTP I gather, dunno about other shows?)
Reading Digital Spys forums reveals Neil Young has got some restrictions on his Glasto performance this year.
How to piss off your fans who can't get down to Glasto to see you? 'You can't show much from my set. Tough!'
(Anyone watched any Glasto this year? I saw Lily Allen's set. It's a shame '**** You' couldn't be transmitted but I suppose all you'd get was '(Mute) You, (Mute) You Very Much' though!)
Good on them for airing the footage as it was meant to be shown though.
What do you mean?
Not cropped I think is what was meant. Better to show it pillarboxed than cropped.
To be honest, best for me would be to have it proper 4:3, flag it as such and let my TV decide what it wants to do!
A little disappointed with the show too - if I wanted a load of videos I'd have gone on YouTube. Did he never perform in the studio (apart from with his brothers)?
Nope he didn't, from memory.
That is your problem with yer overseas star, unless they made regular appearences on UKTV studio shows, which haven't been wiped, or subject to bloody stupid rights restrictions, it's videos or nothing!
Then again some UK stars were probably just as bad. (The Clash spring to mind as regards TOTP I gather, dunno about other shows?)
Reading Digital Spys forums reveals Neil Young has got some restrictions on his Glasto performance this year.
How to piss off your fans who can't get down to Glasto to see you? 'You can't show much from my set. Tough!'
(Anyone watched any Glasto this year? I saw Lily Allen's set. It's a shame '**** You' couldn't be transmitted but I suppose all you'd get was '(Mute) You, (Mute) You Very Much' though!)
CO
<TOTP anorak mode>
There was a studio performance for "Show You The Way To Go", on the 19/5/1977 edition; this show exists and was repeated on UK Gold in the 1990s, but maybe given the short time given to put the programme together, it may not have been possible for the episode to be located, or any required transfer if (although I doubt it) the show is still held on 2" tape or the like.
As well as this and the "Rockin' Robin" performance, There was another MJ performance in the TOTP studio, again with the other Jacksons, on 8/2/1979, but given the song they performed, "Destiny", only peaked at 39, it's no surprise they skipped over that.
The videos shown on TOTP2 were clean VT copies, not lifted from editions of TOTP. And the "Thriller" video was never shown on TOTP, the only time the song featured was as a playout track on 10/11/1983 - the week it entered at 24, and a good four weeks before the video premiered. And as the week after it was featured, "Thriller" reached its peak of 10, the song never got another chance to be featured on the show.
Where did 'Show You The Way To Go' come from, because I could've sworn there was a proper TOTP studio performance shown years ago on TOTP 2 & this wasn't it?
I'd be interested to know with the 'videos' whether the Beeb went to the trouble of finding the original separate clean insert tapes or 'lifted' them from the relavant TOTP original show? I guess the majority of the material shown was originally on TOTP in the first place! ('Thriller' was never shown due to it's content, was it?)
I'd be interested to know with the 'videos' whether the Beeb went to the trouble of finding the original separate clean insert tapes or 'lifted' them from the relavant TOTP original show? I guess the majority of the material shown was originally on TOTP in the first place! ('Thriller' was never shown due to it's content, was it?)
<TOTP anorak mode>
There was a studio performance for "Show You The Way To Go", on the 19/5/1977 edition; this show exists and was repeated on UK Gold in the 1990s, but maybe given the short time given to put the programme together, it may not have been possible for the episode to be located, or any required transfer if (although I doubt it) the show is still held on 2" tape or the like.
As well as this and the "Rockin' Robin" performance, There was another MJ performance in the TOTP studio, again with the other Jacksons, on 8/2/1979, but given the song they performed, "Destiny", only peaked at 39, it's no surprise they skipped over that.
The videos shown on TOTP2 were clean VT copies, not lifted from editions of TOTP. And the "Thriller" video was never shown on TOTP, the only time the song featured was as a playout track on 10/11/1983 - the week it entered at 24, and a good four weeks before the video premiered. And as the week after it was featured, "Thriller" reached its peak of 10, the song never got another chance to be featured on the show.
Last edited by Colm on 28 June 2009 12:03am
NG
Similar but different topic, but surprises me that sport is shown on analogue in 4:3. In the past it was understandable on things like Grandstand where parts of the programme may be 4:3, but nowadays virtually everything is in widescreen - certainly Wimbledon and any football broadcasts anyway.
Sport is shot 4:3 safe though - almost universally (because most sports events have multiple rights holders, some of whom are still 4:3) - whereas most other shows aren't. (Most TV shows in the UK are shot 14:9 action safe, though movies and some arts stuff is only 16:9 action safe)
Basically it is more a case of the reason why other stuff ISN'T shown full-frame on 4:3 outlets, rather than why Sport is. Also - sports fans were the most vocal when it came to trial letterboxing...
We should be lucky that we have a TV system that supports AFDs - in the US all shows are now apparently shot 4:3 safe so that their 16:9 HD network feed can be permanently centre-cut to derive 4:3 cable feeds, now that the networks no longer provide a separate SD 4:3 network feed (with HD 16:9 content converted to centre cut or letterbox as required) to local stations. Without AFDs and the appropriate AFD-driven downconverters, the stations now expect a permanently centre cut to be used for their remaining SD 4:3 outlets.
All a moot point in the UK once we get past 2012 though...
noggin
Founding member
Similar but different topic, but surprises me that sport is shown on analogue in 4:3. In the past it was understandable on things like Grandstand where parts of the programme may be 4:3, but nowadays virtually everything is in widescreen - certainly Wimbledon and any football broadcasts anyway.
Sport is shot 4:3 safe though - almost universally (because most sports events have multiple rights holders, some of whom are still 4:3) - whereas most other shows aren't. (Most TV shows in the UK are shot 14:9 action safe, though movies and some arts stuff is only 16:9 action safe)
Basically it is more a case of the reason why other stuff ISN'T shown full-frame on 4:3 outlets, rather than why Sport is. Also - sports fans were the most vocal when it came to trial letterboxing...
We should be lucky that we have a TV system that supports AFDs - in the US all shows are now apparently shot 4:3 safe so that their 16:9 HD network feed can be permanently centre-cut to derive 4:3 cable feeds, now that the networks no longer provide a separate SD 4:3 network feed (with HD 16:9 content converted to centre cut or letterbox as required) to local stations. Without AFDs and the appropriate AFD-driven downconverters, the stations now expect a permanently centre cut to be used for their remaining SD 4:3 outlets.
All a moot point in the UK once we get past 2012 though...