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Pay-per-view boxing

Why? And why hasn't it worked for other sports? (October 2017)

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OV
Orry Verducci
dvboy posted:
How much do pubs pay for PPV fights?

I work in a Students' Union, which has a bar with Sky on TVs around the venue, and depending on the fight we pay anywhere between £200-400. This is on top of our existing subscriptions, which I think is about £500 for the Sky package with Sky Sports, and a few hundred more for BT Sport. We don't have a rateable value as the licensed venue is in a larger building, so I suspect we're on the higher end of costs, usually the smaller you are the cheaper it becomes.
RD
rdd Founding member
Did PremPlus ever release figures as to how it broke down vis PPV viewers vs “season ticket” holders? Suspect there were more of the latter than the former. The real long term impact of it was to prove that people would pay extra for more football, and in doing so paved the way for the Premier League to split its rights deals (although of course there was also originally an EU stipulation that they do so which is no longer the case).

Incidentally, although I don’t think it’s as prevailing in the UK, there is an annoying tendency in the Irish media to use the term “pay per view” when they really mean “subscription” - you get articles claiming “Sky has the pay per view rights to the Premier League” or such like.
NW
nwtv2003
rdd posted:
Did PremPlus ever release figures as to how it broke down vis PPV viewers vs “season ticket” holders? Suspect there were more of the latter than the former. The real long term impact of it was to prove that people would pay extra for more football, and in doing so paved the way for the Premier League to split its rights deals (although of course there was also originally an EU stipulation that they do so which is no longer the case).

Incidentally, although I don’t think it’s as prevailing in the UK, there is an annoying tendency in the Irish media to use the term “pay per view” when they really mean “subscription” - you get articles claiming “Sky has the pay per view rights to the Premier League” or such like.


The 2001-04 rights were originally awarded to NTL exclusively but then they had to bail and Sky picked it up. However as NTL customers we got every game on Premiership Plus for £10 per season during this time. When Sky got the rights for the 2004-07 seasons the price on NTL went up to £50 per season.

Didn’t know anyone who bought the games individually during this time. Closest thing we have is the NOW TV Day pass for Sky Sports, and I know people who do buy passes from time to time, I think this more successful because it’s has something more than just one game.
SW
Steve Williams
The first PPV football match in the UK was a football league Division 1 (as was) game on Sky Box Office in the late 90s. It ended up a 0-0 draw and there were no more until the Premier Leage sold a package of PPV games from the 2001 season. NTL bought them (to be available on all platforms) but handed then back when they realised they’d never make their money back and the Premier League got Sky to produce the coverage and sold them to each provider (with ‘ITV Sport Select’ doing their own pre and post match coverage for the one season they existed). Even during the first season you could buy a ‘season ticket’ that worked out at about £1 per game, much cheaper than the £8 per game to buy individually. When the next deal was done Sky bought the rights direct and just made the amount of games they were allowed to (50 I think) PPV. They were never the biggest games, the games on Sky Sports were the first picks, these were the additional games. In effect they became the package Setanta bought.


More or less, yes. There were actually two PPV games from the Football League in 1999 as an experiment - Oxford vs Sunderland and Colchester vs Man City, both of which you'll note featured a big club with a huge fanbase away at a notoriously crap and tiny ground (as both Oxford and Colchester's were in those days). And then after that we had u>direct for a year or so who showed various matches on PPV, including Leeds vs 1860 Munich in a Champions League qualifier and, famously, Finland vs England in October 2000. When I bought my first DVD player it came with a DVD of England's 2002 World Cup qualifying campaign, including that match with u>direct graphics. More people probably saw it on that DVD than on u>direct.

You're right about the Premier League PPVs, in 2001-04 they were deliberately sold as a PPV package, and as you say NTL originally bought them but gave them up. I remember the story was that they were going to contract the production to BBC Sport, however that would have worked. In 2004 I recall they had a gold, silver and bronze package, of decreasing quality, and the bronze package "could be" PPV.

The 2001-04 rights were originally awarded to NTL exclusively but then they had to bail and Sky picked it up. However as NTL customers we got every game on Premiership Plus for £10 per season during this time. When Sky got the rights for the 2004-07 seasons the price on NTL went up to £50 per season.

Didn’t know anyone who bought the games individually during this time. Closest thing we have is the NOW TV Day pass for Sky Sports, and I know people who do buy passes from time to time, I think this more successful because it’s has something more than just one game.


I remember Mark Radcliffe on Radio 1 circa 2003 talking about how long it took for him to buy a Man City PPV match the previous night. As you say, most people just bought the season ticket and were in essence "subscribing" to PremPlus like they would Sky Sports.

I used to find PremPlus quite exciting, especially on NTL as there was always the excitement that they might forget to switch it on. And we had the big countdown clock before it, and I came to know Marcus Buckland's spiel about the pictures being encrypted shortly and how you could puchase every match off by heart.

As you say, Sky produced the coverage but in the first season ITV did their own pre- and post-match coverage - which NTL took too, reverting to the Sky presentation from season two. I first got it in 2004, when it was entirely Sky-produced everywhere, and as I say Sky themselves owned the rights outright, but the links between the two were interesting. In 2004-05, they used the same graphics as Sky (albeit a different colour scheme) but Alan Parry did more or less all of them as official PremPlus commentator. But then from 2005-07, Sky commentators shuffled between Sky Sports and PremPlus every week, but the graphics were completely different.
rdd, UKnews and nwtv2003 gave kudos
JO
Jon
I’m not sure Premiership/Prem Plus ever used the same graphics as Sky Sports. I remember at one time it had a similar score box in a different colour but that was about it lower thirds etc were in a totally different style.


Weren’t most matches on Sunday afternoon before Super Sunday? In that way Parry doing most the games was no different to Tyler doing doing Super Sunday.

Was the period they started shuffling the commentators same period when Tyler got a bit of an on air demotion and stopped getting all of the tops games?

It’s interesting since Keys and Gray went he seems to have returned as firm number 1 at Sky and also features on the FIFA branded series of video games most years I believe.

Of course when it was offer the season would work out as little £1 a match, so it was a no brainer to purchase that if you followed a club in the league and likely to watch more than four matches.
Last edited by Jon on 8 October 2017 7:07pm - 3 times in total
JO
Jon
And of course F1 Digital +. Which lasted in the UK all of one season, although was running for a few years before quite sucessfully in Europe. That was sold on a full season, half season or race weekend basis.

In fact the DNA runs of that project still runs very deep today, as the FOM TV world feed production of every race, is borne out of that venture.

The set up was very similar to Prem Plus. Including the layout of the set and the Sky part of the production all being done from the studio.

For something that was meant to be a premium product, it's surprising that even the commentary was pretty much openly off tube. IIRC John Watson moved from the studio to the commentary too.
JO
Jon
Didn’t know anyone who bought the games individually during this time. Closest thing we have is the NOW TV Day pass for Sky Sports, and I know people who do buy passes from time to time, I think this more successful because it’s has something more than just one game.

I imagine most people buying the week or day passes for Sky Sports through Now TV do so they can watch a single match or event. For example if their team make the League Cup final.


The month passes are probably mostly used by those who want a less expensive barrier to entry to Sky Sports.
BR
Brekkie
Wikipedia has a bit about the history of it in the US - the first attempt way back in 1951 was rejected by the FCC, but the Thriller in Manilla in 1975 was the first major pay-per-view boxing events. No information about the history in the UK but I guess Sky threw the money around in the early nineties.

I think there were limited experiments with horse racing and films in the 1960s on the small scale cable systems in the UK. The government wouldn’t allow them to expand so it never developed from there.


Sky’s first PPV event was the Bruno v Tyson fight in 1996.

In late 1997 they started offering films for £3 around six months before they were shown on Sky Movies / The Movie Channel. The cable companies started their own offering not long after.

Concerts were a sporadic and eclectic offering but I can remember Simply Red, Steps, Cliff Richard being amongst the acts people were asked to cough up £9.99 to watch live. There was a Robbie Williams concert not long after HD launched (so 2006), I can’t remember many being advertised since then. Not all concerts Sky had during that time were PPV though, quite a few were on Sky 1- I can remember Oasis at Wembley in 2000 being shown on Sky 1 the same night it was taking place, on an hour or so delay.

Not sure when the wrestling PPVs started (not my thing), in the 1990s I think they were all on Sky Sports - having started on Sky Movies Plus before Sky Sports became a premium channel. There was a period in the early 2000s where what were US PPVs were split between Sky Sports and Channel 4 (the latter on delay with ads), I think half of them went onto PPV when Sky got them all back. As for MMA I think UFC have regular PPVs but they are on BT Sport in the UK as far as I know.

The first PPV football match in the UK was a football league Division 1 (as was) game on Sky Box Office in the late 90s. It ended up a 0-0 draw and there were no more until the Premier Leage sold a package of PPV games from the 2001 season. NTL bought them (to be available on all platforms) but handed then back when they realised they’d never make their money back and the Premier League got Sky to produce the coverage and sold them to each provider (with ‘ITV Sport Select’ doing their own pre and post match coverage for the one season they existed). Even during the first season you could buy a ‘season ticket’ that worked out at about £1 per game, much cheaper than the £8 per game to buy individually. When the next deal was done Sky bought the rights direct and just made the amount of games they were allowed to (50 I think) PPV. They were never the biggest games, the games on Sky Sports were the first picks, these were the additional games. In effect they became the package Setanta bought.

As for the US its worth realising that that before PPV the biggest boxing fights were on the whole only shown live in ‘theatres’ on ‘closed circuit television’. (I believe one of the reasons it started was to get the venues full on quiet mid week nights, so many of the biggest boxing matches all the way through to the 80/ took place on mid week nights.) So there wasn’t the history (as in this country) of them being on FTA TV. It appears home PPV started along side and eventually took over from the fights being shown in cinemas. HBO came along and showed some as part of their subscription channel (as they and Showtime still do for lower profile fights) before home PPV took off in the 80s and 90s.

I have heard that in the 1970s some of the very biggest fights - Muhammad Ali ones in particular - were shown live in a small number of cinemas in the UK. This, I think, was largely down to the cost of the live rights to the BBC or ITV being too much to justify when judged on the number of people who would watch it live. The BBC had shown the Muhammad Ali (or Cassius Clay as he was at the time) v Sonny Liston fight live in 1964 - the first boxing match to be shown live via satellite. (The US ‘theatre’ coverage mentions it being shown in some cinemas in Europe as well.) Something like 4 million people watched it live but then an even bigger number watched the repeat that evening. So why pay for the live rights (and technical expense of showing it at 4am) when many more people would watch it the following evening. Different times and all that! That approach held through even until the first Bruno v Tyson fight in 1989 - broadcast live on Radio 2 but shown on BBC 1 (to a big audience) the following afternoon. (Although that fight was one of the first big events Sky showed live.)

Big fights in the UK (although not the ‘infamous’ Ali v Henry Cooper fight I don’t think) tended to be live on FTA until Sky signed up Frank Warren (the key UK promoter at the time) in 1995. The BBC gradually moved away as the prices went up but ITV had carried on with delyed coverage of big US fights and the likes of Bruno and Eubank live - although only ever the main fight.

Thank you. And that kind of explains how HBO got involved with boxing.

The time difference for a key US based fight is another factor - it's the main reason I never bother with such fights as I'd pay for it then sleep through it but guess that might be a driving factor too with advertisers being unwilling to stump up much for a big fight at 3am.
JO
Jon
Back to the original topic I think it’s obvious why boxing seems to thrive on PPV. As has already been said, it doesn't have any leagues or seasons. This means if you just like boxing the big events that Sky and ITV Box Office show aren't enough to get fans of the sport to shell out on a subscription.

It operates differently to every other sport in that way.
UK
UKnews
And of course F1 Digital +. Which lasted in the UK all of one season, although was running for a few years before quite sucessfully in Europe. That was sold on a full season, half season or race weekend basis.

In fact the DNA runs of that project still runs very deep today, as the FOM TV world feed production of every race, is borne out of that venture.

Indeed - and until FOM took over the coverage of all the races a few years ago it was the best coverage that had ever existed. It got viewers away from the very variable quality of coverage produced by the local broadcaster of each race. Some (RTL in Germany, Fuji TV in Japan) were great, others (think France and Spain were particularly) were awful and would often just follow a home driver (Globo in Brazil) around regardless of what was happening elsewhere, or so similar for a leader who was way out front.


Unfortunately to try and make the FOM coverage more popular Bernie Ecclestone degraded the FTA world feed by making sure the PPV product got the best camera positions and the world feed a very limited choice (and no flexibility to switch mid race) of in car cameras. I read recently that for several years 5 Live were commentating (on site) using the FOM pictures as they were that much better than the world feed. There were occassions (the crazy race in the rain in Belgium in 1998 is on) where if you compare the coverage the FTA world feed is better, but (I’m told by those who saw it at the time / have looked at things since) those races were few and far between.

The crucial difference in the UK was that it was sold as a PPV package where as I think in Italy, Germany, Spain and France it was a subscription channel. (It launched in a couple of those in mid 1996, but became separate coverage the year after.) I can only assume that was because ITVs rights contract blocked a subscription provider but had a loophole that allowed PPV- otherwise I’m sure Sky would have been interested in shared coverage.

It was £12.99 per race weekend I seem to remember, the season ticket for the last 8 or so races (by which point the Championship had pretty much been decided) was about £50. I coughed up and the coverage was fantastic, almost bettering what Sky peovide today (apart from the off tube commentary bit). It was laid back, informative, had great access to the teams and drivers, lengthy build up and post session / race coverage (in the days when that was a novelty I had time and cared enough to watch those) and was entirely commercial free.

Viewers on ITV (and other FTA broadcasters) got a taste of the FOM coverage during the 2002 US Grand Prix. The US network showing the race (ABC I think) didn’t / weren’t considered up to producing the world feed, so everyone got the FOM coverage, complete with its graphics which were different (and much better) than the world feed.
UK
UKnews
Thanks to Steve Williams for filling in the gaps / correcting what I rememebed. I had totally forgotten about U>Direct. I was one of those who (with a few uni friends) coughed up for that England match (must have been offered via On Digital as well), I think it was £8.

U>Direct had the PPV rights for Universal, MGM, Film Four and a few independent studios. Helpfully they showed their films without invoking the Macrovision in the Sky Digital boxes (unlike films on Sky Box Office) so you could tape them. They also often had older / classic films (at £2 each) and a set of three themed films (for £5). Some of these were difficult to get hold of at the time so offered something different to Sky Movies.
BR
Brekkie
Viewers on ITV (and other FTA broadcasters) got a taste of the FOM coverage during the 2002 US Grand Prix. The US network showing the race (ABC I think) didn’t / weren’t considered up to producing the world feed, so everyone got the FOM coverage, complete with its graphics which were different (and much better) than the world feed.


Talking of which and completely off topic but very much connected to the above is that NBC have now lost the F1 rights in the US with ESPN showing them all (but just the World Feed with no presentation) and ABC showing the US and Mexican Grand Prix live and Monaco on a delay. NBC have indicated they've pulled out because F1 plan to launch an new over the top service in the US they feel would compete with their coverage. It is said ESPN haven't had to pay a fee for their coverage as a result.

https://f1broadcasting.co/2017/10/04/f1s-digital-strategy-unfolds-as-conflict-with-tv-model-takes-centre-stage/


And talking of "Over the Top" ITV surely missing a trick by not getting ITV Box Office on to Freeview as a connected stream, and then possibly linking it via the red button. At the very least they could surely make it available through the ITV Hub on Freeview Play.

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