DV
Commercial stations have certainly abused it in the past to run promos either side of travel news, designed to cut in when playing a CD or Aux.
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
MA
I think it's an urban legend, I've heard it said, but I've never seen (well heard !) any evidence.
Classic FM does carry static EON data though, it cross refers the BBC national network frequencies in each area (and vice versa) which is why an EON beacon appears on their transmissions (if your radio has an EON beacon icon, which most don't)
Also, and increasing number of car radios, now have two tuners, which eases the EON vectoring, because the 'other' tuner can be seeking out alternative frequencies, and travel news without the customary little mutes that
of course single tuner radios will have.
A by product of that, is you can (and do) get ILR travel news breaking into BBC stations, because the other tuner
is constantly scanning up and down the FM band looking for raised TA flags. (Which might be where the idea that Classic FM is linked to Global group ILRs comes from)
My Peugeot does that, but (and this is the really crap bit) it doesn't respond to EON commands, so I actually
don't receive many BBC LR updates from the start, just random ILR and BBC LR ones, that are in progress
that the second tuner has stumbled across.
The lack of any proper implementation of the 30 year old spec is shocking !
I'm sure I heard that Classic FM also used this system with its local sister stations in the GWR group (as it was then) for a while. Can anyone confirm this?
I think it's an urban legend, I've heard it said, but I've never seen (well heard !) any evidence.
Classic FM does carry static EON data though, it cross refers the BBC national network frequencies in each area (and vice versa) which is why an EON beacon appears on their transmissions (if your radio has an EON beacon icon, which most don't)
Also, and increasing number of car radios, now have two tuners, which eases the EON vectoring, because the 'other' tuner can be seeking out alternative frequencies, and travel news without the customary little mutes that
of course single tuner radios will have.
A by product of that, is you can (and do) get ILR travel news breaking into BBC stations, because the other tuner
is constantly scanning up and down the FM band looking for raised TA flags. (Which might be where the idea that Classic FM is linked to Global group ILRs comes from)
My Peugeot does that, but (and this is the really crap bit) it doesn't respond to EON commands, so I actually
don't receive many BBC LR updates from the start, just random ILR and BBC LR ones, that are in progress
that the second tuner has stumbled across.
The lack of any proper implementation of the 30 year old spec is shocking !
IS
There's one BBC local station I encounter whose flag used to come on for a promo for their rugby coverage. I hope it was a mistake, though the same station regularly misses the beginning of the bulletin and randomly activates it during the shared programme overnight
Yes the Midlands are bad for that, they all seem to overlap, which seems to have been the issue they found when they put them all on DTT.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
Commercial stations have certainly abused it in the past to run promos either side of travel news, designed to cut in when playing a CD or Aux.
There's one BBC local station I encounter whose flag used to come on for a promo for their rugby coverage. I hope it was a mistake, though the same station regularly misses the beginning of the bulletin and randomly activates it during the shared programme overnight
Quote:
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
Yes the Midlands are bad for that, they all seem to overlap, which seems to have been the issue they found when they put them all on DTT.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
SP
Retuning is a standard RDS feature rather than EON, as far as I know.
Classic FM has an additional use of RDS, it transmits travel information in data form called RDS-TMC which some satnav units can receive and use to route your journey around the delays. (source: http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/rds.html) If they are transmitting that dynamic information I guess doing EON would not be inconceivable.
Classic FM has an additional use of RDS, it transmits travel information in data form called RDS-TMC which some satnav units can receive and use to route your journey around the delays. (source: http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/rds.html) If they are transmitting that dynamic information I guess doing EON would not be inconceivable.
JV
James Vertigan
Founding member
There is/was also a service I think was transmitted within the RDS data of Classic FM between 99.8-101.9 called Focus FM which was something to do with the TrafficMaster devices if I remember correctly. It always used to appear in the Radio Authority pocket book, but I can't find any recent information on it.
(EDIT: Think Steve and I are talking about the same thing!)
(EDIT: Think Steve and I are talking about the same thing!)
MA
Yes and no. Vanila RDS uses AF tables, that give the alternative frequencies for the network (and only the network) you are listening to. EON gives the AF tables for other networks you are likely to receive.
For instance each main Radio 2 transmitter, carries an AF table that lists all the bordering transmitter frequencies, and those of relay stations for that transmitter. It also carries an EON table, that lists the same for R1, 3, 4 and Classic FM.
Imagine you have a single tuner, non EON radio. You drive 200 miles listening to Radio 2, you've passed through the service areas of several transmitters, and completely out of range of your home one. You then hit
the Classic FM preset. Your radio will go to the frequency it was last tuned to, at home. It's blank of course, so then it resorts to the original AF table, no luck still, so then it has to perform a bandscan to find Classic FM, resulting in a pause of several seconds.
With EON, it already knows where to find Classic FM, because it's had the 'local' AF table loaded up from Radio 2
Retuning is a standard RDS feature rather than EON, as far as I know.
Yes and no. Vanila RDS uses AF tables, that give the alternative frequencies for the network (and only the network) you are listening to. EON gives the AF tables for other networks you are likely to receive.
For instance each main Radio 2 transmitter, carries an AF table that lists all the bordering transmitter frequencies, and those of relay stations for that transmitter. It also carries an EON table, that lists the same for R1, 3, 4 and Classic FM.
Imagine you have a single tuner, non EON radio. You drive 200 miles listening to Radio 2, you've passed through the service areas of several transmitters, and completely out of range of your home one. You then hit
the Classic FM preset. Your radio will go to the frequency it was last tuned to, at home. It's blank of course, so then it resorts to the original AF table, no luck still, so then it has to perform a bandscan to find Classic FM, resulting in a pause of several seconds.
With EON, it already knows where to find Classic FM, because it's had the 'local' AF table loaded up from Radio 2
Last edited by Markymark on 28 March 2017 8:05pm
MA
Yes, they list other Global stations, but not in the same way as AF, (that flips back and forth between frequencies, as things fluctuate in overlap zones) The way Global implement EON, is once the radio loses lock on one station, it will look for another that is generically linked. Because the stations will have differing PI codes, it won't flip back and forth. The BBC LRs used the same idea, by having generic linking for LRs in the same regions. That didn't use EON, it used the feature of having the final two digits of the PI code being the same. The Beeb abandoned the idea about 8 years ago, saying listeners (and car radio designers) found it too confusing !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/content/articles/2009/03/18/rds_changes_frequently_asked_questions_feature.shtml
Don't Global use EON on Heart also to retune to a stronger signal as you travel?
Yes, they list other Global stations, but not in the same way as AF, (that flips back and forth between frequencies, as things fluctuate in overlap zones) The way Global implement EON, is once the radio loses lock on one station, it will look for another that is generically linked. Because the stations will have differing PI codes, it won't flip back and forth. The BBC LRs used the same idea, by having generic linking for LRs in the same regions. That didn't use EON, it used the feature of having the final two digits of the PI code being the same. The Beeb abandoned the idea about 8 years ago, saying listeners (and car radio designers) found it too confusing !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/content/articles/2009/03/18/rds_changes_frequently_asked_questions_feature.shtml
SP
I seem to remember there being some weirdness with how Radio 1 was configured when they used to have opt outs for the nations, they didn't change the PIs so if you were in the overlap area between say a Welsh and English transmitter you got a right mess switching between the two.
Some BBC Locals had a similar issue when they introduced extra opt outs without thinking it through, eg Radio Leeds opting 103.9 for sport separately.
Some BBC Locals had a similar issue when they introduced extra opt outs without thinking it through, eg Radio Leeds opting 103.9 for sport separately.
AN
To be fair even the BBC abuse it by promoting something either before or after the travel news but during the period when the signal has been fired off.
I can pick up up to 6 different BBC travel bulletins on my commute, and with them all having the same jingles and beds these days, the start of the bulletin name checking the station being cut off and half of them having the same presenter, you can't always tell which station it is that has cut in.
Obviously I can as as a geek who has been commuting in the rush hour for long enough, I know what times past the hour each station runs their bulletins!
Andrew
Founding member
Commercial stations have certainly abused it in the past to run promos either side of travel news, designed to cut in when playing a CD or Aux.
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
To be fair even the BBC abuse it by promoting something either before or after the travel news but during the period when the signal has been fired off.
Yes the Midlands are bad for that, they all seem to overlap, which seems to have been the issue they found when they put them all on DTT.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
I can pick up up to 6 different BBC travel bulletins on my commute, and with them all having the same jingles and beds these days, the start of the bulletin name checking the station being cut off and half of them having the same presenter, you can't always tell which station it is that has cut in.
Obviously I can as as a geek who has been commuting in the rush hour for long enough, I know what times past the hour each station runs their bulletins!
Last edited by Andrew on 28 March 2017 9:33pm
MI
To be fair even the BBC abuse it by promoting something either before or after the travel news but during the period when the signal has been fired off.
I can pick up up to 6 different BBC travel bulletins on my commute, and with them all having the same jingles and beds these days, the start of the bulletin name checking the station being cut off and half of them having the same presenter, you can't always tell which station it is that has cut in.
Obviously I can as as a geek who has been commuting in the rush hour for long enough, I know what times past the hour each station runs their bulletins!
I find I get every county except the one I'm driving in at the time. I can get London sometimes (way out) plus all the neighbouring ones (Essex, Cambs, Norfolk) but not Suffolk.
Commercial stations have certainly abused it in the past to run promos either side of travel news, designed to cut in when playing a CD or Aux.
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
Most people I think turn this feature off as I would be very annoying driving round Birmingham and having Simon Mayo constantly interrupted by travel news for Stoke, then Derby, then Leicester...
To be fair even the BBC abuse it by promoting something either before or after the travel news but during the period when the signal has been fired off.
Yes the Midlands are bad for that, they all seem to overlap, which seems to have been the issue they found when they put them all on DTT.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
At least with the BBC stations being named after counties you normally know if they're relevant. It just as annoying when you're driving down the motorway and '107.7 The Plank' breaks with a traffic report and you've no idea what the station is or what area it's talking about.
I can pick up up to 6 different BBC travel bulletins on my commute, and with them all having the same jingles and beds these days, the start of the bulletin name checking the station being cut off and half of them having the same presenter, you can't always tell which station it is that has cut in.
Obviously I can as as a geek who has been commuting in the rush hour for long enough, I know what times past the hour each station runs their bulletins!
I find I get every county except the one I'm driving in at the time. I can get London sometimes (way out) plus all the neighbouring ones (Essex, Cambs, Norfolk) but not Suffolk.