PO
If only they'd kept Pebble Mill...
Plenty of other regional studios to pop it into though.
lilhelen posted:
well its old B'ham base wasnt even a propper studio was it, the facilities at bbc midlands are limited the only studio there is for local news so for an extra live show to be made there not in a propper studio, in such a limited facility would be a drain.
If only they'd kept Pebble Mill...
Plenty of other regional studios to pop it into though.
:-(
A former member
why did P/mill get knock down?
LO
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
623058 posted:
why did P/mill get knock down?
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
JO
Yes, but why does everything have to be from London? It's such a mis representation of the fact not everybody lives in the Capital. I like the fact it was from B'ham, it was quite original really. Was the One Show a pilot? Why was it so short lived earlier this year?
lilhelen posted:
well its old B'ham base wasnt even a propper studio was it, the facilities at bbc midlands are limited the only studio there is for local news so for an extra live show to be made there not in a propper studio, in such a limited facility would be a drain.
Yes, but why does everything have to be from London? It's such a mis representation of the fact not everybody lives in the Capital. I like the fact it was from B'ham, it was quite original really. Was the One Show a pilot? Why was it so short lived earlier this year?
NG
It was a rumour that was denied by the BBC - who at the time said discussions were still ongoing about the future of The One Show and no decision had been made at the time.
noggin
Founding member
Roger Mellie posted:
I thought that Nadia was being dropped, and Adrian Chiles would be presenting solo? Was that just a rumour, or did they change their minds?
It was a rumour that was denied by the BBC - who at the time said discussions were still ongoing about the future of The One Show and no decision had been made at the time.
NG
Yes, but why does everything have to be from London? It's such a mis representation of the fact not everybody lives in the Capital. I like the fact it was from B'ham, it was quite original really. Was the One Show a pilot? Why was it so short lived earlier this year?
The One Show from Birmingham was a 4 week pilot and always described as such within the industry. It was an attempt to see if an early evening magazine programme with factual, topical and current affairs content would work, and if it did work there was a hope a longer commission based on the concept would be picked up.
noggin
Founding member
Jonathan posted:
lilhelen posted:
well its old B'ham base wasnt even a propper studio was it, the facilities at bbc midlands are limited the only studio there is for local news so for an extra live show to be made there not in a propper studio, in such a limited facility would be a drain.
Yes, but why does everything have to be from London? It's such a mis representation of the fact not everybody lives in the Capital. I like the fact it was from B'ham, it was quite original really. Was the One Show a pilot? Why was it so short lived earlier this year?
The One Show from Birmingham was a 4 week pilot and always described as such within the industry. It was an attempt to see if an early evening magazine programme with factual, topical and current affairs content would work, and if it did work there was a hope a longer commission based on the concept would be picked up.
TV
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
i was going to reply properly, but thought better of it - never know who might be reading. lets just say, your opinion (not sure what its based on) of the downfall of pebble mill isn't quite accurate but never mind.
tvmercia
Founding member
LONDON posted:
623058 posted:
why did P/mill get knock down?
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
i was going to reply properly, but thought better of it - never know who might be reading. lets just say, your opinion (not sure what its based on) of the downfall of pebble mill isn't quite accurate but never mind.
TR
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
To put the record straight & clear up some confusion, much of which was spin by the BBC to justify this epic cock-up, there was nothing seriously wrong with Pebble Mill.
It needed the boiler overhauling, double glazing and bringing up to insulation standards, the studios needed a technical refit but that was about it. It was only 30 years old and a purpose built TV & radio production centre with full post production facilities. The place had plenty of car parking and was easily accessible by most staff. The foyer was designed to host TV production from the outset. The place was a good place to work and MADE FOR PRODUCING PROGRAMMING.
Compare this with the shoe box. It's a space in a shopping centre where the production facilities had to be stuffed in wherever possible and were second to the BBC's obsession with image & high profile sites.
Pebble Mill cost £2000 peppercorn rent from Birmingham council and the building belonged to the BBC so they could adapt and use it as they please.
The shoe box cost £2 million per year to lease and it is very difficult to make any changes without a great deal of expense as the leasing company and facilities have to be involved. It too difficult to produce live TV other that Midlands today, its just not practical. The office space outweighs the production as it is also head of English Regions.
In addition they have to run the Drama village (doctors) which is yet more expense.
It is a complete distortion of the facts that closing Pebble Mill was to save money. Production costs far more now from the Mailbox.
Many staff were made redundant by closing the production studios.
The whole episode was a complete management mess & disaster, badly thought through and a questionable use of the licence fee.
LONDON posted:
623058 posted:
why did P/mill get knock down?
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
To put the record straight & clear up some confusion, much of which was spin by the BBC to justify this epic cock-up, there was nothing seriously wrong with Pebble Mill.
It needed the boiler overhauling, double glazing and bringing up to insulation standards, the studios needed a technical refit but that was about it. It was only 30 years old and a purpose built TV & radio production centre with full post production facilities. The place had plenty of car parking and was easily accessible by most staff. The foyer was designed to host TV production from the outset. The place was a good place to work and MADE FOR PRODUCING PROGRAMMING.
Compare this with the shoe box. It's a space in a shopping centre where the production facilities had to be stuffed in wherever possible and were second to the BBC's obsession with image & high profile sites.
Pebble Mill cost £2000 peppercorn rent from Birmingham council and the building belonged to the BBC so they could adapt and use it as they please.
The shoe box cost £2 million per year to lease and it is very difficult to make any changes without a great deal of expense as the leasing company and facilities have to be involved. It too difficult to produce live TV other that Midlands today, its just not practical. The office space outweighs the production as it is also head of English Regions.
In addition they have to run the Drama village (doctors) which is yet more expense.
It is a complete distortion of the facts that closing Pebble Mill was to save money. Production costs far more now from the Mailbox.
Many staff were made redundant by closing the production studios.
The whole episode was a complete management mess & disaster, badly thought through and a questionable use of the licence fee.
NG
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
Don't want this to turn into a flame fest -and I notice you state these are opinions not facts.
There have always been serious misgivings about how much money it would have cost to remain at Pebble Mill compared to moving to the Mailbox and building the drama village, coupled with the major loss of facilities that moving to the Mailbox incurred (not just a loss of studio space). The suggestion is that the Mailbox may not be the bargain it may at first seem.
The comments about regional news being taken nearer the people of the region is an interesting one - given that Midlands Today isn't Birmingham Today. It DOES make sense for regional broadcasting to be based in a city centre location - but if this was a major requirement - then it might have made more sense to have split regional production from network production - as the requirements for the two aren't that compatible. Network production doesn't benefit hugely from being right in the town centre - in fact it can be a major pain and increase your costs significantly.
As for TVC - this is an interesting case. The BBC will no longer own BBC Resources by the time News and Sport/Kids move out (though if the license fee is as low as press reports suggest the Beeb won't be able to afford Manchester in the form currently planned) - so it will be interesting to see how the split between BBC and the studio operation no longer operated by the BBC but based at TV Centre and Elstree interact, and how buildings are managed in this scenario.
I hear rumblings about the BBC White City building (only built in around 1987ish) being demolished in the next 5 years - as it is too expensive to upgrade it for modern broadcasting (it was never designed for production departments, and was meant to be a corporate HQ - except corporate ended up moving back to central London) and cheaper to demolish. (Some production depts are already likely to move out to the Media Centre on the same site)
Very interesting times - but the sad fact is it is likely that any studios the BBC build in the future on new sites won't be built to the same high quality and standards as those at TV Centre. The BBC simply can't afford to any more - and nobody else can either it seems.
noggin
Founding member
LONDON posted:
623058 posted:
why did P/mill get knock down?
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there. In my opinion it was a good move by the BBC, because the BBC can now focus the licence fee on programmeing, rather than repairing building which were poorley built, which would probably cost more. Doctors is still in the area, just at the drama village. Midlands Today has now been taken to the people of the region, rather than being a few miles outside, meaning they can visit the BBC studios, as it is more centralised. Change has to take place, and although it sometimes maybee dificult to accept, it can be a good thing. I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go, and in a few years time once the move to manchester is completed, and the new news centre is operational, tv centre should be either refurbished exstensively or rebuilt, so money is not wasted on maintaining the building.
Don't want this to turn into a flame fest -and I notice you state these are opinions not facts.
There have always been serious misgivings about how much money it would have cost to remain at Pebble Mill compared to moving to the Mailbox and building the drama village, coupled with the major loss of facilities that moving to the Mailbox incurred (not just a loss of studio space). The suggestion is that the Mailbox may not be the bargain it may at first seem.
The comments about regional news being taken nearer the people of the region is an interesting one - given that Midlands Today isn't Birmingham Today. It DOES make sense for regional broadcasting to be based in a city centre location - but if this was a major requirement - then it might have made more sense to have split regional production from network production - as the requirements for the two aren't that compatible. Network production doesn't benefit hugely from being right in the town centre - in fact it can be a major pain and increase your costs significantly.
As for TVC - this is an interesting case. The BBC will no longer own BBC Resources by the time News and Sport/Kids move out (though if the license fee is as low as press reports suggest the Beeb won't be able to afford Manchester in the form currently planned) - so it will be interesting to see how the split between BBC and the studio operation no longer operated by the BBC but based at TV Centre and Elstree interact, and how buildings are managed in this scenario.
I hear rumblings about the BBC White City building (only built in around 1987ish) being demolished in the next 5 years - as it is too expensive to upgrade it for modern broadcasting (it was never designed for production departments, and was meant to be a corporate HQ - except corporate ended up moving back to central London) and cheaper to demolish. (Some production depts are already likely to move out to the Media Centre on the same site)
Very interesting times - but the sad fact is it is likely that any studios the BBC build in the future on new sites won't be built to the same high quality and standards as those at TV Centre. The BBC simply can't afford to any more - and nobody else can either it seems.
BS
your opinion (not sure what its based on) of the downfall of pebble mill isn't quite accurate but never mind.
tvmercia, what you've just said make no sense. If something is a statement of opinion , rather than a statement of fact , then "it is/isn't accurate" is not applicable!
Also, at least with regard to the state of the Pebble Mill building, LONDON was correct surely?.
Hell, even the Goodbye Pebble Mill programme that Toyah Wilcox presented acknowledged the fact! They mentioned that it was only ever single-glazed so was incredibly expensive to heat, amongst other things. Is it not generally accepted knowledge that the building was asbestos-ridden?
And BBC Birmingham (Pebble Mill) stopped making programmes that required large studios (e.g. Telly Addicts) many moons ago, so what would be the point in staying a large studio complex only to make Midlands Today, WM Radio, The Archers, and precious little else? (Countryfile etc doesn't count because it doesn't require a studio)
tvmercia posted:
LONDON posted:
It was falling down anyway. Pebble Mill basically became too expensive for what was being housed there...
...I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go
...I am sure people elsewhere in the country are happy that there money is being spent on programmeing, rather than a crumbleing old building.
In my opinion Pebble Mill had to go
your opinion (not sure what its based on) of the downfall of pebble mill isn't quite accurate but never mind.
tvmercia, what you've just said make no sense. If something is a statement of opinion , rather than a statement of fact , then "it is/isn't accurate" is not applicable!
Also, at least with regard to the state of the Pebble Mill building, LONDON was correct surely?.
Hell, even the Goodbye Pebble Mill programme that Toyah Wilcox presented acknowledged the fact! They mentioned that it was only ever single-glazed so was incredibly expensive to heat, amongst other things. Is it not generally accepted knowledge that the building was asbestos-ridden?
And BBC Birmingham (Pebble Mill) stopped making programmes that required large studios (e.g. Telly Addicts) many moons ago, so what would be the point in staying a large studio complex only to make Midlands Today, WM Radio, The Archers, and precious little else? (Countryfile etc doesn't count because it doesn't require a studio)
TV
perhaps i could have phrased it better, but i took exception at london stating his opinions, such as "It was falling down anyway" and "rather than repairing building which were poorly built" as fact.
the building may not have been updated or maintained, but that does not mean that the building was poorly built, it means that the bbc took the decision not to maintain it. tv centre would fall apart if the bbc decided not to maintain it. it may have been shabby in its dying days - but at no point did i witness signs of it "falling down". it would be interesting to know if "london" has ever worked in pebble mill - or even set foot in there?
the building contained asbestos - as do many other bbc buildings, and most bbc buildings were single glazed when they were built.
as to the decline in usage and the reasons behind it - my opinion differs with yours. of course that's my own personal opinion - but one shared by some colleagues.
tvmercia
Founding member
Work of Artifice posted:
tvmercia, what you've just said make no sense. If something is a statement of
opinion
, rather than a statement of
fact
, then "it is/isn't accurate" is not applicable!
Also, at least with regard to the state of the Pebble Mill building, LONDON was correct surely?.
Hell, even the Goodbye Pebble Mill programme that Toyah Wilcox presented acknowledged the fact! They mentioned that it was only ever single-glazed so was incredibly expensive to heat, amongst other things. Is it not generally accepted knowledge that the building was asbestos-ridden?
And BBC Birmingham (Pebble Mill) stopped making programmes that required large studios (e.g. Telly Addicts) many moons ago, so what would be the point in staying a large studio complex only to make Midlands Today, WM Radio, The Archers, and precious little else? (Countryfile etc doesn't count because it doesn't require a studio)
Also, at least with regard to the state of the Pebble Mill building, LONDON was correct surely?.
Hell, even the Goodbye Pebble Mill programme that Toyah Wilcox presented acknowledged the fact! They mentioned that it was only ever single-glazed so was incredibly expensive to heat, amongst other things. Is it not generally accepted knowledge that the building was asbestos-ridden?
And BBC Birmingham (Pebble Mill) stopped making programmes that required large studios (e.g. Telly Addicts) many moons ago, so what would be the point in staying a large studio complex only to make Midlands Today, WM Radio, The Archers, and precious little else? (Countryfile etc doesn't count because it doesn't require a studio)
perhaps i could have phrased it better, but i took exception at london stating his opinions, such as "It was falling down anyway" and "rather than repairing building which were poorly built" as fact.
the building may not have been updated or maintained, but that does not mean that the building was poorly built, it means that the bbc took the decision not to maintain it. tv centre would fall apart if the bbc decided not to maintain it. it may have been shabby in its dying days - but at no point did i witness signs of it "falling down". it would be interesting to know if "london" has ever worked in pebble mill - or even set foot in there?
the building contained asbestos - as do many other bbc buildings, and most bbc buildings were single glazed when they were built.
as to the decline in usage and the reasons behind it - my opinion differs with yours. of course that's my own personal opinion - but one shared by some colleagues.