:-(
A former member
Did New zealand broadcast all episodes?
JK
New Zealand did get to see some of the House Party, certainly the first series was aired, but many months after UK transmission.
Did New zealand broadcast all episodes?
New Zealand did get to see some of the House Party, certainly the first series was aired, but many months after UK transmission.
IS
Yes, I think a lot of the rights to various intellectual property were either taken over by Unique or Unique got the non-TV rights to use them.
It doesn't mean that Unique couldn't have had a copy of the studio recordings
I imagined Unique was more to do with the editorial side (if that’s the right word in this context) than the broadcasting infrastructure side.
Yes, I think a lot of the rights to various intellectual property were either taken over by Unique or Unique got the non-TV rights to use them.
It doesn't mean that Unique couldn't have had a copy of the studio recordings
VM
Anyone remember the talk about the experimental HD/widescreen recording of Noel's House Party? Well, look what appears on the screen during this Tomorrow's World demonstration of PALplus:
(Skip to 22:24)
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
(Skip to 22:24)
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
NG
Not directly related but I remember a Tina Turner TOTP performance being part of a BBC HD demonstration on an open day. It was in the era of TOTP having neon circles and squares - I can't remember if it was shot in the European 1250/50i system (i.e. 2x625 which would be 1152i25 in modern active-only descriptions) or the Japanese 1125/60i system (which was 1035-1050i30 - not 29.97 - but evolved to be 1080i29.97 which is the current 1080i standard!)
The BBC shot a lot of 1250/50i stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - both alongside regular PAL 4:3 production and separately. (Wimbledon Centre Court had separate 1250/50i coverage in the early 90s, with NHK shooting 1125/60i on Court Number 1 I think - or was it the opposite side of Centre Court?) Ballets and Operas were also shot on both formats by the BBC.
Carols from Kings was shot 1125/60i (and converted to 4:3 PAL) at least once for the Japanese I believe - who by then had an HD channel on-air using MUSE HD transmission tech. And of course, The Ginger Tree (a BBC/NHK co-pro) was shot 1125/60i (onto 1" Digital VTRs) by a BBC camera crew in the UK and Japan, and online edited in TC1's gallery I believe. As no 1125/60->625/50 direct conversion was possible, the BBC broadcast unfortunately went 1125/60->525/59.94->625/50 I believe.
The Noel's House Party was almost certainly shot 1250/50 using the BBC experimental HD OB truck (an ancient ex-BBC Wales P-registered ex- VT? truck) that had KCH-1250 BTS HD cameras (3 tube) which were eventually augmented/replaced by very early (and quite noisy) LDK CCD cameras (which I think had 1" rather than 2/3" sensors - like the early HiVision HD cameras) This truck also housed 4 x D1 VTRs to allow for Quad SD recording (1440x1152 from 4 x 720x576 streams) - though by 1993 this may have been upgraded to include the compression system that reduced the number of D1 VTR streams required. The truck had a small GVG-110 CV-style single bank analogue component mixer with HD bandwidth analogue processing.
The 1250 system had some sizeable investment behind it - Aston made a 1250-line Aston 4 equivalent (and Pesa also made a 1250 line CG), Quantel produced a 1250 line Paintbox (though they were already using 1125/60 for the user interface monitor for their print-resolution Graphic Paintbox and I think also had a HiVision Paintbox for the 1125/60 system) Although it ultimately didn't take off as a system - and to be fair, neither did PAL+ - the investment in 16:9 production that followed did help when DVB-T/S arrived and 16:9 digital broadcasts became feasible. (D/D2MAC 16:9 - like PAL+ - was not a huge success)
noggin
Founding member
Anyone remember the talk about the experimental HD/widescreen recording of Noel's House Party? Well, look what appears on the screen during this Tomorrow's World demonstration of PALplus:
(Skip to 22:24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJm15LMQEHM
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
(Skip to 22:24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJm15LMQEHM
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
Not directly related but I remember a Tina Turner TOTP performance being part of a BBC HD demonstration on an open day. It was in the era of TOTP having neon circles and squares - I can't remember if it was shot in the European 1250/50i system (i.e. 2x625 which would be 1152i25 in modern active-only descriptions) or the Japanese 1125/60i system (which was 1035-1050i30 - not 29.97 - but evolved to be 1080i29.97 which is the current 1080i standard!)
The BBC shot a lot of 1250/50i stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - both alongside regular PAL 4:3 production and separately. (Wimbledon Centre Court had separate 1250/50i coverage in the early 90s, with NHK shooting 1125/60i on Court Number 1 I think - or was it the opposite side of Centre Court?) Ballets and Operas were also shot on both formats by the BBC.
Carols from Kings was shot 1125/60i (and converted to 4:3 PAL) at least once for the Japanese I believe - who by then had an HD channel on-air using MUSE HD transmission tech. And of course, The Ginger Tree (a BBC/NHK co-pro) was shot 1125/60i (onto 1" Digital VTRs) by a BBC camera crew in the UK and Japan, and online edited in TC1's gallery I believe. As no 1125/60->625/50 direct conversion was possible, the BBC broadcast unfortunately went 1125/60->525/59.94->625/50 I believe.
The Noel's House Party was almost certainly shot 1250/50 using the BBC experimental HD OB truck (an ancient ex-BBC Wales P-registered ex- VT? truck) that had KCH-1250 BTS HD cameras (3 tube) which were eventually augmented/replaced by very early (and quite noisy) LDK CCD cameras (which I think had 1" rather than 2/3" sensors - like the early HiVision HD cameras) This truck also housed 4 x D1 VTRs to allow for Quad SD recording (1440x1152 from 4 x 720x576 streams) - though by 1993 this may have been upgraded to include the compression system that reduced the number of D1 VTR streams required. The truck had a small GVG-110 CV-style single bank analogue component mixer with HD bandwidth analogue processing.
The 1250 system had some sizeable investment behind it - Aston made a 1250-line Aston 4 equivalent (and Pesa also made a 1250 line CG), Quantel produced a 1250 line Paintbox (though they were already using 1125/60 for the user interface monitor for their print-resolution Graphic Paintbox and I think also had a HiVision Paintbox for the 1125/60 system) Although it ultimately didn't take off as a system - and to be fair, neither did PAL+ - the investment in 16:9 production that followed did help when DVB-T/S arrived and 16:9 digital broadcasts became feasible. (D/D2MAC 16:9 - like PAL+ - was not a huge success)
Last edited by noggin on 2 November 2019 11:46am
JA
If there's a widescreen version of Miami Twice, I wonder why it's never turned up on repeats over recent years? Especially as the version which is shown is 14:9 in a 4:3 frame. The framing on the close up shots of that Noel footage looks quite awkward though, looks more like 4:3 cropped to 16:9, if that had been cropped to 4:3 for broadcast it must have looked really cramped.
NG
it may well be that they cropped an existing 4:3 master - or they just transferred a short sequence.
Similarly if it was just a 16:9 telecine of a film edit, that was telecine to the Eureka 1250 line standard, a 1250/50 Quad D1 (or compressed D1) VTR copy would be useless - as there isn't really much to play it on outside of BBC R&D (who have a converter that takes Quad D1 1250/50 (aka 1440x1152i25) and converts it to the current 1920x1080i25 active system)
If by then the transfer was to 16:9 SD - then it may well have been to Beta SP (the clip in Tomorrow's World is clearly playing from a Beta SP VTR by the look of the grey bar as the TV input is switched before it goes into play - and there were 16:9 modified Beta SP VTRs used by BSB for their 16:9 MAC transmissions - though it may have been regular Beta SP, as there was no major reason that Beta SP couldn't be used for 16:9 video. BBC News used regular Beta SP for 16:9 well into the 00s)
That said, you'd be surprised how different versions don't get into the repeat system - for various reasons.
noggin
Founding member
If there's a widescreen version of Miami Twice, I wonder why it's never turned up on repeats over recent years? Especially as the version which is shown is 14:9 in a 4:3 frame. The framing on the close up shots of that Noel footage looks quite awkward though, looks more like 4:3 cropped to 16:9, if that had been cropped to 4:3 for broadcast it must have looked really cramped.
it may well be that they cropped an existing 4:3 master - or they just transferred a short sequence.
Similarly if it was just a 16:9 telecine of a film edit, that was telecine to the Eureka 1250 line standard, a 1250/50 Quad D1 (or compressed D1) VTR copy would be useless - as there isn't really much to play it on outside of BBC R&D (who have a converter that takes Quad D1 1250/50 (aka 1440x1152i25) and converts it to the current 1920x1080i25 active system)
If by then the transfer was to 16:9 SD - then it may well have been to Beta SP (the clip in Tomorrow's World is clearly playing from a Beta SP VTR by the look of the grey bar as the TV input is switched before it goes into play - and there were 16:9 modified Beta SP VTRs used by BSB for their 16:9 MAC transmissions - though it may have been regular Beta SP, as there was no major reason that Beta SP couldn't be used for 16:9 video. BBC News used regular Beta SP for 16:9 well into the 00s)
That said, you'd be surprised how different versions don't get into the repeat system - for various reasons.
Last edited by noggin on 2 November 2019 11:58am
TI
Not directly related but I remember a Tina Turner TOTP performance being part of a BBC HD demonstration on an open day. It was in the era of TOTP having neon circles and squares - I can't remember if it was shot in the European 1250/50i system (i.e. 2x625 which would be 1152i25 in modern active-only descriptions) or the Japanese 1125/60i system (which was 1035-1050i30 - not 29.97 - but evolved to be 1080i29.97 which is the current 1080i standard!)
The BBC shot a lot of 1250/50i stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - both alongside regular PAL 4:3 production and separately. (Wimbledon Centre Court had separate 1250/50i coverage in the early 90s, with NHK shooting 1125/60i on Court Number 1 I think - or was it the opposite side of Centre Court?) Ballets and Operas were also shot on both formats by the BBC.
I wonder if these posts (full episodes) are true then?
http://missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/6581/top-pops-1250-line-query?page=1
I would assume, going by your recollection (Tina Turner and Neon circles era) that this is pre-move to Elstree (so pre-September 1991)
A quick search of Popscene suggests Tina Turner performed “The Best” on 14/9/89, I Don’t Wanna Lose You on 30/11/89 and Steamy Windows on 22/2/90
If any of these episodes exist fully in HD, I wonder if the BBC Four airings would be in that format, or if they only transferred them to the digital archive from the regular master.
Anyone remember the talk about the experimental HD/widescreen recording of Noel's House Party? Well, look what appears on the screen during this Tomorrow's World demonstration of PALplus:
(Skip to 22:24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJm15LMQEHM
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
(Skip to 22:24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJm15LMQEHM
Also if you go back a bit from that start point, they show a clip of a widescreen version of the Only Fools and Horses 1991 Christmas special 'Miami Twice'.
Not directly related but I remember a Tina Turner TOTP performance being part of a BBC HD demonstration on an open day. It was in the era of TOTP having neon circles and squares - I can't remember if it was shot in the European 1250/50i system (i.e. 2x625 which would be 1152i25 in modern active-only descriptions) or the Japanese 1125/60i system (which was 1035-1050i30 - not 29.97 - but evolved to be 1080i29.97 which is the current 1080i standard!)
The BBC shot a lot of 1250/50i stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - both alongside regular PAL 4:3 production and separately. (Wimbledon Centre Court had separate 1250/50i coverage in the early 90s, with NHK shooting 1125/60i on Court Number 1 I think - or was it the opposite side of Centre Court?) Ballets and Operas were also shot on both formats by the BBC.
I wonder if these posts (full episodes) are true then?
http://missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/6581/top-pops-1250-line-query?page=1
I would assume, going by your recollection (Tina Turner and Neon circles era) that this is pre-move to Elstree (so pre-September 1991)
A quick search of Popscene suggests Tina Turner performed “The Best” on 14/9/89, I Don’t Wanna Lose You on 30/11/89 and Steamy Windows on 22/2/90
If any of these episodes exist fully in HD, I wonder if the BBC Four airings would be in that format, or if they only transferred them to the digital archive from the regular master.
VM
It's likely they'd just do a new transfer of it now in HD - the Tomorrow's World clip doesn't mention that it's HD, just that it's in widescreen.
If there's a widescreen version of Miami Twice, I wonder why it's never turned up on repeats over recent years? Especially as the version which is shown is 14:9 in a 4:3 frame. The framing on the close up shots of that Noel footage looks quite awkward though, looks more like 4:3 cropped to 16:9, if that had been cropped to 4:3 for broadcast it must have looked really cramped.
It's likely they'd just do a new transfer of it now in HD - the Tomorrow's World clip doesn't mention that it's HD, just that it's in widescreen.
NG
If it was from an HD trial of Noel's House Party, that wouldn't have been used for broadcast. They ran the limited HD trial productions alongside SD rather than down converting and 16:9->4:3 converting (which made looking to camera an issue...), or if the show was recorded did things twice if possible.
noggin
Founding member
The framing on the close up shots of that Noel footage looks quite awkward though, looks more like 4:3 cropped to 16:9, if that had been cropped to 4:3 for broadcast it must have looked really cramped.
If it was from an HD trial of Noel's House Party, that wouldn't have been used for broadcast. They ran the limited HD trial productions alongside SD rather than down converting and 16:9->4:3 converting (which made looking to camera an issue...), or if the show was recorded did things twice if possible.
IT
I’m sure I read that the BBC’s trial HD on 4x D1 had been transferred to 1080 for archiving, involving some DVE to make it fit in the space.EUREKA archiving project springs to mind as a name?
NG
Yes - I think all of R&D's Quad D1 (and later compressed D1) stuff was transferred. I don't know about any other Quad D1 that may be in the BBC archives though. (Though I suspect it all ended up with R&D?)
Richard Russell details his Quad D1 to HD-SDI conversion design - and the rescaler he implemented. (He'd done high quality DVE / re-scaling in other BBC projects)
(Be interesting to know if BBC Archives have any 1125/60 1" Digital VTR material too, as The Ginger Tree was edited in that format, but the English subtitles were definitely added in the SD 4:3 PAL domain, so the 1" DVTR versions won't be UK Masters...)
noggin
Founding member
I’m sure I read that the BBC’s trial HD on 4x D1 had been transferred to 1080 for archiving, involving some DVE to make it fit in the space.EUREKA archiving project springs to mind as a name?
Yes - I think all of R&D's Quad D1 (and later compressed D1) stuff was transferred. I don't know about any other Quad D1 that may be in the BBC archives though. (Though I suspect it all ended up with R&D?)
Richard Russell details his Quad D1 to HD-SDI conversion design - and the rescaler he implemented. (He'd done high quality DVE / re-scaling in other BBC projects)
(Be interesting to know if BBC Archives have any 1125/60 1" Digital VTR material too, as The Ginger Tree was edited in that format, but the English subtitles were definitely added in the SD 4:3 PAL domain, so the 1" DVTR versions won't be UK Masters...)