New Year Live (BBC)

Indeed. There was an excellent documentary on BBC Scotland the other night (possibly on iPlayer) following the history of Hogmanay shows for the network, including the unmitigated disaster that was "Into '85".

I suspect we're not going to see another BBC Scotland network show again.

Don't think it is just suits who have that view. Fine for it to be broadcast as an additional programme on BBC Two - but not as the only network show.



Yep - a networked BBC One show has to appeal to a wider audience than the BBC Scotland show would. However trying to mould the BBC Scotland show into a network one would compromise it to death - alienating Scottish viewers, and not exactly drawing non-Scottish viewers in either.



Whilst that is true to a degree - I'm not sure a BBC Scotland show would get an audience of 9.2 million. I suspect more people would have watched ITV's valliant attempt at something decent if the BBC One show had been the BBC Scotland production.

The Groucho comment is both harsh and horribly dated. (Groucho is very 90s as a reference - Shoreditch House would be a bit more like it this decade?)



Yes - the BBC Scotland show exists to provide a suitable Scottish celebration for a very Scottish festival. The rest of the UK celebrates differently.

I didn't watch the Hogmanay show live this year - will be watching it recorded. If it had ANY bagpipes in it I suspect you'd see the ratings plummet on the second-by-second ratings...

You may be right - I obviously can't make a call as to how an English audience would react. I also know there is a growing (although probably overstated) anti-Scottish feeling down south, so circumstances may now be different.

However I'll guarantee you that ANY programme broadcast over the bells on BBC1 would get 9.2 million. People just flock to it as the natural channel for major national events. I don't think showing Hogmanay Live for 15 minutes beforehand would damage them too far.

I also suspect it would serve the older audience rather than the trendy effort made for network. At the same time it has moved with the times - I think the only appearance of bagpipes was at the bells themselves in a yearly tradition, but it was actually quite contemporary without going too far the other way. Strangely BBC Scotland is in a better position to do a network show now than they were when they had it.

Incidentally, does anyone have ratings for the Scottish shows? I fear STV may be in for more of a hiding than usual.

I think if they vary it up so it's not the same thing every year people wouldn't care where it came from.

For example, with Liverpool being City of Culture 2008 it would have been great to have something from there instead.

Think you are over-estimating the audience breakdown. The audience for the midnight shows is not as "old" as you may think. There is a dip in the 16-24 bracket - and obviously a larger over-65 audience - but the 25-64 audience levels are roughly constant, as are the under 15 audience levels.

Also - not sure you could describe the BBC One show as "trendy"... It was so MOR it wasn't true.

Well to be fair, 1998 was networked (but as mentioned, some bigwig wanted to remove some of the Scottish-ness and so ''New Year Live'' was an absolutely heinous programme! 2003 was also networked and was only spolit by the fact that the Edinburgh weather ruined BBC Scotland showing their fireworks - London was used instead.

If you go back over the last 2, 3 years of Hogmanay Live I think you have a solid programme that isn't exactly 'tartan and shortbread' but does have a distinctlively Scottish feel.

2006 into 2007 camera work/directing was much better with the fireworks! The shots onboard the boats were totally pointless!

What was "Into 85" and why was it so bad?

having just seen the first couple of minutes (and midnight) on the bbc scotland programme on iplayer and i would beg to differ.

i just dont know how much of that stuff would resonate with the wider audience. i don't think many of my fellow english men have any affinity with bag pipes, tartan or scottish folk music. in my mind, the key part is seeing big ben at midnight - which network fill either side with c list celebs on the banks of the thames. the scottish audience obviously prefer to see a bagpiper.

so each to their own.

I'm not sure that's particularly true, but we do respond to a bit of heritage.

That said I do love wearing a kilt. I've got fabulous legs, you know.

The Scots Hogmanay prog from 1984 into 1985.

Find a copy of 'TV Hell' from the early 90's, which will answer your second question!

Some jock geezer tried to do a live poem & dried on air ISTR.

Hey, if England would prefer to see C list celebs at midnight, it's all yours.

I recommend this linky here - http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/features/christmas/newyear.htm - for all your new year on TV history up to 2001. Where the author presumably lost the will to live and stopped watching new year TV.