PC
You may trust his judgement, but I don't trust you.
Unless of course, you back this up with substantial information about what the new 'idents' will be.
Which you won't do. Because you can't; IMHO, you are telling us a fib. I do however openly invite you to prove me wrong.
podder posted:
A friend of mine has seen them and he is a bit of an ident anorak too, and he hates them. I trust his judgement! 
You may trust his judgement, but I don't trust you.
Unless of course, you back this up with substantial information about what the new 'idents' will be.
Which you won't do. Because you can't; IMHO, you are telling us a fib. I do however openly invite you to prove me wrong.
DR
What did Lambie-Nairn do to sour the BBC (or vice-versa) - Apart from the dancers, which seemed to be forced upon them by Heggessey restrictive requirements, I can't think of anything they have created for the BBC that hasn't looked better than the c*** coming out of Red-Bee.
PC
I too have wondered this -- what's the story behind Lambie-Nairn getting the cold shoulder from the Beeb? They have a more than satisfactory record, with their work on the early Channel 4, and the hugely popular 2's from '91 to name a couple.
Alright, they made ONE mistake -- but surely that doesn't merit them being shut out from contending for a contract of this type?
AFAIK these sides get to battle it out for the commission: Red Bee, Fallon, AMV and DFGW.
No Lambie-Nairn in sight it seems, but I may be wrong there.
drnilescrane posted:
What did Lambie-Nairn do to sour the BBC (or vice-versa) - Apart from the dancers, which seemed to be forced upon them by Heggessey restrictive requirements, I can't think of anything they have created for the BBC that hasn't looked better than the c*** coming out of Red-Bee.
I too have wondered this -- what's the story behind Lambie-Nairn getting the cold shoulder from the Beeb? They have a more than satisfactory record, with their work on the early Channel 4, and the hugely popular 2's from '91 to name a couple.
Alright, they made ONE mistake -- but surely that doesn't merit them being shut out from contending for a contract of this type?
AFAIK these sides get to battle it out for the commission: Red Bee, Fallon, AMV and DFGW.
No Lambie-Nairn in sight it seems, but I may be wrong there.
:-(
That's boll ocks for a start.
I have to agree. What a load of ****!
A former member
marksi posted:
podder posted:
A friend of mine has seen them
That's boll ocks for a start.
I have to agree. What a load of ****!
WI
Well as you are unwilling to substantiate your "claims" you can't blame marksi for ridiculing you. I have already invited you to phone your friend and ask him what he's seen....you declined. Someone else has asked you for your friends name....if he is a regular on here as you claim that shouldn't be a problem. again you declined. you have given u nothing to convince us of your knowledge into the new look. asking marksi to put his views across is a cop out on your part. marksi is a man who probably does know but he is not going to reveal anything to you just so that you can turn round and pretend it's what you knew all along.
I actually think the new look will be better than the dancers. We have no evidence that the new look will be worse than the current ones. we have no proof that Red Bee are developing something terrible, that is just hearsay. So Podder, either back up your friends claims (imaginery friend at that) or don't say anything.
podder posted:
Fair enough. I knew you wouldn't believe me. marksi, you've probably seen the new idents too. Would you like to give us your take on them?
Well as you are unwilling to substantiate your "claims" you can't blame marksi for ridiculing you. I have already invited you to phone your friend and ask him what he's seen....you declined. Someone else has asked you for your friends name....if he is a regular on here as you claim that shouldn't be a problem. again you declined. you have given u nothing to convince us of your knowledge into the new look. asking marksi to put his views across is a cop out on your part. marksi is a man who probably does know but he is not going to reveal anything to you just so that you can turn round and pretend it's what you knew all along.
I actually think the new look will be better than the dancers. We have no evidence that the new look will be worse than the current ones. we have no proof that Red Bee are developing something terrible, that is just hearsay. So Podder, either back up your friends claims (imaginery friend at that) or don't say anything.
SP
They should ditch idents (AKA 'symbols') but I very much doubt they will.
It would be very nice to see a mainstream UK channel move away from the trail, trail, ident, programme model and come up with something more radical.
There are many more ways to do a junction wihout having to finish it with a 10 second bit of video to ident the channel.
With all this talk of 'a new way of doing it', is anyone else getting a feeling of deja vu?
We had exactly the same thing when ITV1 ditched the celebrity idents, and they proudly announced that they'd be abandoning the conventional ident in favour of a system of integrated menus and preview clips.
Of course the usual suspects on here were outraged that this would be the end of the ident, and therefore civilisation, as we know it (probably somehow blaming Political Correctness Gone Mad™ in the process).
In the end, ITV1 used normal idents for most of the day, with the integrated menus / clips used at primetime only... until they got bored with the faff of putting them together and reverted to standard idents across the board.
I think the reality is that the current system of presentation has evolved for a reason - because it works well, and attempts to change it rather smack of trying to reinvent the wheel.
Inspector Sands posted:
Moz posted:
Must admit I've not been following this thread much, but I've just been reading a bit about it on Wikipedia...
...and it makes me think that BBC One will not have any idents any more. Or at least not idents as we know them now.
If they do go this way, it makes sense. What is the point of the ident as we know it now? Formerly it was to introduce the next programme, and brand the channel. Well you can tell what the programme is because it usually has it's own titles, and as for branding, surely there's enough of that in the trailers between the programmes.
Quote:
In August 2005, BBC One controller Peter Fincham has hinted that the dancers may be on their way out. He told the Edinburgh International Television Festival that "it may well be that the time is coming to look at
a new way of doing it
. No date or direct decision has been made but it's under review".
According to the Media Guardian, Fincham has confirmed that in Autumn 2006, the 'Rhythm and Movement' idents will be replaced with a new presentation package , along with a new schedule. As speculated, Red Bee Media (formerly BBC Broadcast) will create the new presentation package . Red Bee created the new idents for the ITV channels that were introduced in January 2006.
According to the Media Guardian, Fincham has confirmed that in Autumn 2006, the 'Rhythm and Movement' idents will be replaced with a new presentation package , along with a new schedule. As speculated, Red Bee Media (formerly BBC Broadcast) will create the new presentation package . Red Bee created the new idents for the ITV channels that were introduced in January 2006.
...and it makes me think that BBC One will not have any idents any more. Or at least not idents as we know them now.
If they do go this way, it makes sense. What is the point of the ident as we know it now? Formerly it was to introduce the next programme, and brand the channel. Well you can tell what the programme is because it usually has it's own titles, and as for branding, surely there's enough of that in the trailers between the programmes.
They should ditch idents (AKA 'symbols') but I very much doubt they will.
It would be very nice to see a mainstream UK channel move away from the trail, trail, ident, programme model and come up with something more radical.
There are many more ways to do a junction wihout having to finish it with a 10 second bit of video to ident the channel.
With all this talk of 'a new way of doing it', is anyone else getting a feeling of deja vu?
We had exactly the same thing when ITV1 ditched the celebrity idents, and they proudly announced that they'd be abandoning the conventional ident in favour of a system of integrated menus and preview clips.
Of course the usual suspects on here were outraged that this would be the end of the ident, and therefore civilisation, as we know it (probably somehow blaming Political Correctness Gone Mad™ in the process).
In the end, ITV1 used normal idents for most of the day, with the integrated menus / clips used at primetime only... until they got bored with the faff of putting them together and reverted to standard idents across the board.
I think the reality is that the current system of presentation has evolved for a reason - because it works well, and attempts to change it rather smack of trying to reinvent the wheel.
BT
Lambie-Nairn were on to a good little number: selling TV channels branding that looks quite cute but dates very quickly, plus an ongoing branding consultancy that gives them the opportunity to go round a while later and say "cor, that branding of yours is looking a bit dated.... we could fix it for you for only ££££"
BBC Broadcast / Red Bee eventually realised that they could grab this winning idea and do very nicely out of it without having to pay Martin Lambie-Nairn.
Paul Clark posted:
what's the story behind Lambie-Nairn getting the cold shoulder from the Beeb?
Lambie-Nairn were on to a good little number: selling TV channels branding that looks quite cute but dates very quickly, plus an ongoing branding consultancy that gives them the opportunity to go round a while later and say "cor, that branding of yours is looking a bit dated.... we could fix it for you for only ££££"
BBC Broadcast / Red Bee eventually realised that they could grab this winning idea and do very nicely out of it without having to pay Martin Lambie-Nairn.
SP
Lambie-Nairn were on to a good little number: selling TV channels branding that looks quite cute but dates very quickly, plus an ongoing branding consultancy that gives them the opportunity to go round a while later and say "cor, that branding of yours is looking a bit dated.... we could fix it for you for only ££££"
BBC Broadcast / Red Bee eventually realised that they could grab this winning idea and do very nicely out of it without having to pay Martin Lambie-Nairn.
I think you're right that LN did sometimes seem to be taking the p*ss... although I'd disagree that their work dates quickly.
Channel 4's original block idents lasted fourteen years, and the basic idea of the logo is still going strong after almost 24 years.
The original BBC Two '2' idents lasted over ten years, with the concept (albeit modified) still in use 15 years on.
I also think part of the brilliance of the BBC One ballon idents is that they were so timeless... and had they been allowed by BBC One to continue I'm sure they'd still have looked as fresh today.
I think when it comes down to it, LN have developed a reputation for being very expensive, and at a time when the BBC has been making cutbacks and laying off staff, it wouldn't be the best PR to be seen to be spending too much on idents.
Baroness Trumpington posted:
Paul Clark posted:
what's the story behind Lambie-Nairn getting the cold shoulder from the Beeb?
Lambie-Nairn were on to a good little number: selling TV channels branding that looks quite cute but dates very quickly, plus an ongoing branding consultancy that gives them the opportunity to go round a while later and say "cor, that branding of yours is looking a bit dated.... we could fix it for you for only ££££"
BBC Broadcast / Red Bee eventually realised that they could grab this winning idea and do very nicely out of it without having to pay Martin Lambie-Nairn.
I think you're right that LN did sometimes seem to be taking the p*ss... although I'd disagree that their work dates quickly.
Channel 4's original block idents lasted fourteen years, and the basic idea of the logo is still going strong after almost 24 years.
The original BBC Two '2' idents lasted over ten years, with the concept (albeit modified) still in use 15 years on.
I also think part of the brilliance of the BBC One ballon idents is that they were so timeless... and had they been allowed by BBC One to continue I'm sure they'd still have looked as fresh today.
I think when it comes down to it, LN have developed a reputation for being very expensive, and at a time when the BBC has been making cutbacks and laying off staff, it wouldn't be the best PR to be seen to be spending too much on idents.