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"Watch this space" as BBC Creative respond to ident change request (December 2016)

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MM
MMcG198
Has this NI test card ever been broadcast before? Is it used internally?


To the best of my knowledge, BBC NI has never broadcast its own version of test card 'F' (or any later variant of it). Back in the days when test card 'F' put in regular appearances during the day on both channels, viewers in NI will only ever have seen the network-generated version of the test card, which, until 1984, was put to air using a Cintel Slide Scanner. BBC NI didn't have a slide scanner until c. the latter stages of 1985/early 1986 (I'm a bit hazy on the exact date). If there was a daytime closedown in Belfast - they might have been showing a local programme and couldn't rejoin network until the start of the next programme - we simply got black and tone. Although I have vague recollections of BBC NI using their pulse/bar in lieu of a proper test card, occasionally. Even when the slide scanner was introduced in Belfast, I have no recollection of a test card 'F' slide ever being broadcast locally. Nor am I aware of any electronically-generated form of test card 'F' (or any later variant of it) coming from BBC NI.

And by 1983, the test card had already been relegated to short, early morning outings on Network BBC One and BBC Two. Though it did appear during morning/afternoon hours if the teletext generator or the Ceefax transmission system broke down - as happened on at least a few occasions.

BBC NI didn't even seem to have its own Test Card 'G' generator. During the afternoon 'Programme Transfer' slots on BBC Two, NI viewers were treated to the Test Card 'G' generated by BBC Scotland. Tony C may be able to verify if this was definitely the case.

Not sure why BBC NI had so little technology available to them at the time. Perhaps a reluctance to invest in expensive equipment given the security situation here at the time. I have very clear recollections too, that the noise of passing traffic could be heard during local continuity announcements. They wouldn't even pay for proper sound-proofing. In fact, I saw a clip on YouTube not that long ago, with an example of that - I'll try and find it.

EDIT: found it. Listen out at 1 minute, 30 seconds in. Judith Rebbeck is the announcer. Note also the dreadful picture sync issues during transitions between network and the local desk - we had to put up with nonsense like that for years (until 1992 actually). These picture disturbances were in addition to the picture/sound jumps we experienced when they put the desk in and out of circuit - a situation which continued until c. 2001, on analogue (and it got pretty dire towards the end - and yes, I did say 2001).



By 1986/7, BBC NI had their own Ceefax generator (could've been a BBC Micro). Their long-running Schools programme 'Ulster in Focus' was transmitted fortnightly and every other week, they filled the gap with 'Pages from Ceefax'. Here are some images from one of these Ceefax transmissions, from a 1988 Betamax recording:

First, the slide-based intro (which BBC NI also used at the end, before rejoining Network, rather than the standard 'You Have Been Watching...' page)::

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-01.png

...and some grabs of the pages themselves:

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-02.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-03.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-04.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-05.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-06.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-07.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-08.png

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-09.png

...and rejoining Network just before 11am, for 'Words and Pictures'...

http://thetvroom.com/tvf/bbc2-ni-ceefax-10.png
Last edited by MMcG198 on 2 July 2017 4:10pm - 13 times in total
LS
LoganStuff
Northern Ireland's ident:


That gave me a good laugh, haha.
DP
D.Page
Network are a peculiar lot aren't they. There have been two playouts of Allotment Holders this afternoon with Sue Barker doing the anno. (not really worth me uploading them), but they were in SD res and without the Subtitles indicator, when the programmes had subtitles. What's going on here? Do they do these types of special playouts in a mad rush and forget these things or what?
MM
MMcG198
Network are a peculiar lot aren't they. There have been two playouts of Allotment Holders this afternoon with Sue Barker doing the anno. (not really worth me uploading them), but they were in SD res and without the Subtitles indicator, when the programmes had subtitles. What's going on here? Do they do these types of special playouts in a mad rush and forget these things or what?


The only time I can recollect this type of thing happening before was when the ident + voiceover was pre-recorded. Don't know what would've merited that though today - usually they'd just play the usual HD ident and insert the pre-recorded announcement on top, at the time of transmission.

I noticed that Dean Lydiate was on BBC One and BBC Two yesterday evening. Not sure if he was "live" on both channels during the earlier part of the evening.
MA
Markymark


EDIT: found it. Listen out at 1 minute, 30 seconds in. Judith Rebbeck is the announcer. Note also the dreadful picture sync issues during transitions between network and the local desk - we had to put up with nonsense like that for years (until 1992 actually). These picture disturbances were in addition to the picture/sound jumps we experienced when they put the desk in and out of circuit - a situation which continued until c. 2001, on analogue (and it got pretty dire towards the end - and yes, I did say 2001).



I must say, I spent a week in Belfast in July 1991, and I was astounded to see the non sync jumps in and out of network at every junction.
MMcG198 and LoganStuff gave kudos
DE
denton
I think you'll find it was created specially for this occasion.


It's actually been around quite a few years, occasionally used internally by Pres to identify the output of playout streams.
DE
denton
I think the last time that BBC NI regularly used a test card on air was about 9 or 10 years ago. We would fill with it very early in the morning on BBC Two Northern Ireland before playing out Sesame Tree, and children's programmes in Irish. I think we had to start using the TC after the Ceefax generator gasped its last.
DP
D.Page
DP
D.Page
I think the last time that BBC NI regularly used a test card on air was about 9 or 10 years ago. We would fill with it very early in the morning on BBC Two Northern Ireland before playing out Sesame Tree, and children's programmes in Irish. I think we had to start using the TC after the Ceefax generator gasped its last.


You can always dig it out for us fans, as a one-off showing anytime you want Wink
MM
MMcG198
I think the last time that BBC NI regularly used a test card on air was about 9 or 10 years ago. We would fill with it very early in the morning on BBC Two Northern Ireland before playing out Sesame Tree, and children's programmes in Irish. I think we had to start using the TC after the Ceefax generator gasped its last.


The testcard wasn't used. As I recall - and I have recordings from the time - the 'now/next' graphic was used and accompanied by music.
DE
denton
Yes, the menu was used... However I certainly remember having to use the testcard too to fill the time. That may have been just on the shift I did, or perhaps my memory is merging it with another occasion... but I definitely remember using it.

*Edit*
Just asked a colleague. Who says we opted out of network to our own version of the testcard and used that to fill until we cut to the menu filler.

Thoughts on the dodgy 70s continuity. The good (for the time) continuity suite was, it seems, damaged by a bomb explosion early 70s. The rest of 70s was spent with a more makeshift arrangement... Which included sandbags up the walls for soundproofing / blast proofing.
Last edited by denton on 2 July 2017 10:03pm
MM
MMcG198
Yes, the menu was used... However I certainly remember having to use the testcard too to fill the time. That may have been just on the shift I did, or perhaps my memory is merging it with another occasion... but I definitely remember using it.

*Edit*
Just asked a colleague. Who says we opted out of network to our own version of the testcard and used that to fill until we cut to the menu filler.

Thoughts on the dodgy 70s continuity. The good (for the time) continuity suite was, it seems, damaged by a bomb explosion early 70s. The rest of 70s was spent with a more makeshift arrangement... Which included sandbags up the walls for soundproofing / blast proofing.


Been out all evening. Unfortunately, my archive isn't consistently itemised, so there are large "reels" of BBC Two NI from that period - summer 2008 - which don't have specifics listed. But, there is an itemised reel from May 2008 which is properly itemised and it lists a 15-minute menu just ahead of 'Sesame Street'. My notes suggest that this was a regular event at the time - and that this was the best compromise now that the local Ceefax generator was gone. I made a bunch of recordings of those early morning local junctions at the time and have no recollection of any test card. But, I didn't record and review all of these junctions, so it's entirely possible that a test card could've been broadcast in the 15-minute gap between network Ceefax and 'Sesame Street' at 6.15am. Though I would've thought such an event worthy of a TVF mention at the time.

The recording mentioned above is on physical media (DVD). I'll see if I can dig it out before heading to bed.

EDIT: can't get the DVD to play on this PC. But tried on a DVD player/recorder. This particular recording is from the early hours of Sunday 11 May 2008. BBC Two NI leaves Network 'Pages from Ceefax' at 6am and switches to a menu graphic which reads:

This Morning

6.15 Sesame Street
6.30 Na Dodai
6.45 Sesame Street
7.00 CBBC

Sounded like the same Funtastik Ceefax music played over the BBC Two NI menu (though played out by BBC NI). No voiceover when the menu appeared. But Gavin Healy ran through the menu just ahead of introducing 'Sesame Street' using the 'Sunroof' ident.
Last edited by MMcG198 on 3 July 2017 12:57am - 2 times in total

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