TV
Indeed! There is a discussion on DS at the moment saying there is no new Christmas Ident this year on either BBC1 or BBC2. BBC 1 will apparently have a re-run of last years (the houses in a cul-de-sac, bloke tripping up in a Turkey costume ident) together with the huge snowball from a few years back. Maybe the original penguins skating around a Christmas tree will be back?!?
According to DS BBC2 will have the same as last year (again!).
Anyone know for sure?
I am sure ITV1 will repeat last years too.
Considering the massive budget cuts I think we'll be lucky to get a new Christmas ident this year never mind a complete rebrand anytime soon.
Indeed! There is a discussion on DS at the moment saying there is no new Christmas Ident this year on either BBC1 or BBC2. BBC 1 will apparently have a re-run of last years (the houses in a cul-de-sac, bloke tripping up in a Turkey costume ident) together with the huge snowball from a few years back. Maybe the original penguins skating around a Christmas tree will be back?!?
According to DS BBC2 will have the same as last year (again!).
Anyone know for sure?
I am sure ITV1 will repeat last years too.
JO
Interesting point re BBC Four. Back in November 2010, its controller spoke avidly about an upcoming rebrand (although he probably referred to it as an "identity redefinement" or some such), which seems to have been put on the back burner with the advent of DQF, etc. Indeed, who knows what new direction BBC Four may be forced to take in the immediate future if media column speculation is to be believed.
I would argue that BBC Four's on screen pres is the strongest of the four main BBC channels at present, perhaps because it hasn't encountered the curse of the refresh. In the time since the "Four Perspectives" theme first appeared, BBC's 1-3 have all received comprehensive new looks and subsequent major and minor revisions of those new looks. In contrast, Four's package has remained markedly consistent from launch, save for 2(?) conservative updates to the trail endboard style. The idents continue in their original forms whilst a steady stream of high quality, brand aligned specials have kept the channel looking fresh and visually appealing.
Compare this to the treatment of BBC Two's "Windows" package. A mere 15 or so months after its launch, a whole new surrounding package was ordered. 2 years, seven withdrawn idents and one aborted refresh later, we were (and still are) left with the vomiting rainbow that is BBC Two's supposed brand identity. The best idents scrapped, the ones that still exist tired from overuse, needlessly altered and preceded by a hopelessly misguided trail scheme CBeebies would dismiss as infantile.
The initial package may have been below Two's standard and you could reasonably argue that its identity crisis stretches far beyond the purely graphical but there does seem to be an attitude of not being able to leave well enough alone at the BBC. Surely the answer can never be the commissioning of a radically different surrounding package/re-edits half-way through a campaign, delaying the possibility of an overhaul whilst achieving little to resolve the perceived problems in the short term, thus satisfying no-one?
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As for Christmas idents, BBC One retrieving the last 5 years' from the loft wouldn't surprise me; 2010's trails and menus were the best they've churned out in aeons and would take some beating. BBC Two - well they've just given up on Two as far as presentation goes, haven't they? The Universe idents showed it really wouldn't take much to suitably re-edit a few of the regulars if someone had the mind/desire to.
That does seem to be the case - BBC Four's current idents have now been in use for six years (the longest serving BBC idents since the 90s 2s!)...
Interesting point re BBC Four. Back in November 2010, its controller spoke avidly about an upcoming rebrand (although he probably referred to it as an "identity redefinement" or some such), which seems to have been put on the back burner with the advent of DQF, etc. Indeed, who knows what new direction BBC Four may be forced to take in the immediate future if media column speculation is to be believed.
I would argue that BBC Four's on screen pres is the strongest of the four main BBC channels at present, perhaps because it hasn't encountered the curse of the refresh. In the time since the "Four Perspectives" theme first appeared, BBC's 1-3 have all received comprehensive new looks and subsequent major and minor revisions of those new looks. In contrast, Four's package has remained markedly consistent from launch, save for 2(?) conservative updates to the trail endboard style. The idents continue in their original forms whilst a steady stream of high quality, brand aligned specials have kept the channel looking fresh and visually appealing.
Compare this to the treatment of BBC Two's "Windows" package. A mere 15 or so months after its launch, a whole new surrounding package was ordered. 2 years, seven withdrawn idents and one aborted refresh later, we were (and still are) left with the vomiting rainbow that is BBC Two's supposed brand identity. The best idents scrapped, the ones that still exist tired from overuse, needlessly altered and preceded by a hopelessly misguided trail scheme CBeebies would dismiss as infantile.
The initial package may have been below Two's standard and you could reasonably argue that its identity crisis stretches far beyond the purely graphical but there does seem to be an attitude of not being able to leave well enough alone at the BBC. Surely the answer can never be the commissioning of a radically different surrounding package/re-edits half-way through a campaign, delaying the possibility of an overhaul whilst achieving little to resolve the perceived problems in the short term, thus satisfying no-one?
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As for Christmas idents, BBC One retrieving the last 5 years' from the loft wouldn't surprise me; 2010's trails and menus were the best they've churned out in aeons and would take some beating. BBC Two - well they've just given up on Two as far as presentation goes, haven't they? The Universe idents showed it really wouldn't take much to suitably re-edit a few of the regulars if someone had the mind/desire to.
CR
Wow... Maybe you could have checked the BBC One thread first, before posting that...
No sign of a new look, another new ident using the circle theme... http://www.theidentgallery.com/player.php?id=BBC1-2011-ID-DINOSAUR-HD-1
Wow... Maybe you could have checked the BBC One thread first, before posting that...
JA
Indeed! There is a discussion on DS at the moment saying there is no new Christmas Ident this year on either BBC1 or BBC2. BBC 1 will apparently have a re-run of last years (the houses in a cul-de-sac, bloke tripping up in a Turkey costume ident) together with the huge snowball from a few years back. Maybe the original penguins skating around a Christmas tree will be back?!?
According to DS BBC2 will have the same as last year (again!).
Anyone know for sure?
I am sure ITV1 will repeat last years too.
BBC1 could easily reuse all the circle era Christmas idents (including the Wallace and Gromit one), although the Doctor Who one would have to be restricted to the serious news version only, because it's outdated. However, I can't see penguins being used, because it's in the normal rotation. Using snowball and last year's street ident makes sense to be honest. But BBC2 badly needs a new one - maybe they could reuse some of the 1991-2001 era Christmas idents? All they need is the current teal box adding to them and the old /B/B/C/ or |B|B|C|TWO logo removed. One of them was already reused as a Winter Olympics ident during the yellow era, amended in that manner.
Considering the massive budget cuts I think we'll be lucky to get a new Christmas ident this year never mind a complete rebrand anytime soon.
Indeed! There is a discussion on DS at the moment saying there is no new Christmas Ident this year on either BBC1 or BBC2. BBC 1 will apparently have a re-run of last years (the houses in a cul-de-sac, bloke tripping up in a Turkey costume ident) together with the huge snowball from a few years back. Maybe the original penguins skating around a Christmas tree will be back?!?
According to DS BBC2 will have the same as last year (again!).
Anyone know for sure?
I am sure ITV1 will repeat last years too.
LL
Is there a reason why the Beeb overlooks Lambie Nairn nowadays? I mean, they were responsible for some of the Beeb's most famous identities, not to mention the almighty Channel 4 blocks, yet Red Bee were responsible for the tat currently identifying ITV.
JO
Suggestions of BBC Two reusing presentation from packages past are ill-judged. Superficially, the 2 is a different shape; more importantly, they are of a totally different aesthetic - putting them alongside the failings of the current look wouldn't do them justice
at all
.
Two needs to draw inspiration from packages past, yes but digging up the dead is not the way to improve.
They were the most commonly used agency by the BBC for about 20 years up to 2005, perhaps it was just a case of wanting to give someone else a go? At the time, their latest work included the Dancers and Robot 2s, which hadn't been as well received as previous efforts whilst BBC News graphics had been moved in-house. Then there's the probability that the newly formed Red Bee (previously BBC Broadcast) may have tabled a more appealing creative/monetary offer.
I did think the success of the 2008 BBC News rebrand might have seen a return to the fold at the next opportunity... but then the economy disappeared, taking extravagant new logos off the agenda. A pity, as BBC TV really could do with being "tied back together" a la BBC News.
Does anyone know whether L-N were invited to submit a concept for the BBC2 rebrand of Feb 07? Would've been interesting to learn where they were intending on taking it.
Two needs to draw inspiration from packages past, yes but digging up the dead is not the way to improve.
Is there a reason why the Beeb overlooks Lambie Nairn nowadays? I mean, they were responsible for some of the Beeb's most famous identities, not to mention the almighty Channel 4 blocks, yet Red Bee were responsible for the tat currently identifying ITV.
They were the most commonly used agency by the BBC for about 20 years up to 2005, perhaps it was just a case of wanting to give someone else a go? At the time, their latest work included the Dancers and Robot 2s, which hadn't been as well received as previous efforts whilst BBC News graphics had been moved in-house. Then there's the probability that the newly formed Red Bee (previously BBC Broadcast) may have tabled a more appealing creative/monetary offer.
I did think the success of the 2008 BBC News rebrand might have seen a return to the fold at the next opportunity... but then the economy disappeared, taking extravagant new logos off the agenda. A pity, as BBC TV really could do with being "tied back together" a la BBC News.
Does anyone know whether L-N were invited to submit a concept for the BBC2 rebrand of Feb 07? Would've been interesting to learn where they were intending on taking it.
TH
The BBC formally ended their long-standing relationship with Lambie-Nairn earlier this year, when a new creative roster was announced.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/03_march/07/csr.shtml
One should remember that many people who made Lambie-Nairn great back then aren't there anymore. This includes Martin Lambie-Nairn himself, as well as many other great directors, such as the ones that founded Dunning Eley Jones a few years ago.
Is there a reason why the Beeb overlooks Lambie Nairn nowadays? I mean, they were responsible for some of the Beeb's most famous identities, not to mention the almighty Channel 4 blocks, yet Red Bee were responsible for the tat currently identifying ITV.
The BBC formally ended their long-standing relationship with Lambie-Nairn earlier this year, when a new creative roster was announced.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/03_march/07/csr.shtml
One should remember that many people who made Lambie-Nairn great back then aren't there anymore. This includes Martin Lambie-Nairn himself, as well as many other great directors, such as the ones that founded Dunning Eley Jones a few years ago.
DE
The current look used by BBC News is a Lambie-Nairn design. When it was brought in in 2008 it was as if they'd stamped their feet and demanded everyone returned to Gill Sans, original (ish) versions of the David Lowe music and branding elements like place names floating around the screen during the titles. A lot of bits of BBC News had drifted away from some (or in one or two cases) all of those elements over the years. For example, Points West with its own Theme Tune, BBC National News bulletins with the Swiss (was it?) font rather than Gill Sans and so-on.
WE
You couldn't use the full version of the Who one as Tennant was plastered all over it, but you could definetely use the short one.
Was there regional versions of the short one?
BBC1 could easily reuse all the circle era Christmas idents (including the Wallace and Gromit one), although the Doctor Who one would have to be restricted to the serious news version only, because it's outdated.
You couldn't use the full version of the Who one as Tennant was plastered all over it, but you could definetely use the short one.
Was there regional versions of the short one?
PE
That's probably the best description of the revamp I've read. Despite all the prowess of said agency we ended up as a much shoddier version of the original 1999-2000 package
Despite said elements existing in the original revamp, there was a nice difference between Nationals, Regions, News 24 and World (with the latter two both having their own nice little musical sting in the titles). Now all we have is a set of cheap looking graphics where bits of stock footage are run into a template to make new titles (see English regions) rather than the nicer interpretations such as NWT's short lives package.
Pete
Founding member
When it was brought in in 2008 it was as if they'd stamped their feet and demanded everyone returned to Gill Sans, original (ish) versions of the David Lowe music and branding elements like place names floating around the screen during the titles.
That's probably the best description of the revamp I've read. Despite all the prowess of said agency we ended up as a much shoddier version of the original 1999-2000 package
Despite said elements existing in the original revamp, there was a nice difference between Nationals, Regions, News 24 and World (with the latter two both having their own nice little musical sting in the titles). Now all we have is a set of cheap looking graphics where bits of stock footage are run into a template to make new titles (see English regions) rather than the nicer interpretations such as NWT's short lives package.