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Tim Davie Appointed BBC Director General

(June 2020)

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AS
AlexS
Jonwo posted:
Personally, I don't see the likes of The Mash Report, Mock the Week or HIGNFY being axed.

No, although arguably in the case of the last two, and perhaps even all three, their past their sell by dates anyway. That's nothing to do with them being "Left wing" - and of the three I'd only say The Mash Report is, and even then it's people getting confused between being "left wing" and holding the government to account.

Absolutely, and the reason why there's more jokes about the Government is because they're the Government, they're making the decisions and sometimes making the mistakes. Topical comedies do absolutely joke about everyone, but in these times with political animals living in bubbles it's not enough. In the run up to the last election programmes like The News Quiz and HIGNFY were doing at least 5 minutes on what the Tories got up to that week and about the same 5 minutes on what Labour had done.... but you wouldn't have known that if you had just listened to the whinging on social media. According Twitter they were unfairly attacking Corbyn every week and the BBC was anti-Labour.
It's cognitive bias - if the programme isn't expressing someone's opinion then to them it's biased.


The other thing this is about I suspect is a culture wars thing - the idea among some people that representation is left wing. If there's a comedian on that is from a minority then that is 'left wing bias'. If an advert has a mixed race couple or a sitcom or drama has a disabled person in it then again to some that's 'left wing bias'.

HIGNFY isn't the problem. Unlike many of the other topical comedy shows it has a format that leans itself to suit guests from a variety of backgrounds and can therefore attract sufficient numbers of people from across the political spectrum in a way that other programmes often fail (while I would agree that some individual people have felt out of place many non comedians have been amongst the best guests on the programme). Mock the Week is particularly problematic due to the views of it's standing panelist and host being in the same direction which often leads to other panelists heading in that direction even if they are typically unbiased when on other programmes.
Last edited by AlexS on 1 September 2020 6:44pm
JO
johnnyboy Founding member
W1LL posted:
I do find it funny how some right wingers are trying to portray HIGNFY as some form of communist propaganda.

It’s certainly not like our current Conservative Prime Minister has ever hosted the programme (multiple times).


HiGNIFY is brilliant in that everyone is a potential victim of their humour. During the New Labour period, their politicians were often particularly savaged. For me, HIGNIFY is not left wing comedy at all.

I think an example of the new DG's target would be the likes of smug and self satisfied The Mash Report which, to me as an observer, seems very, for want of a better phrase, Islington dinner party and just as interested in persuading its viewers of its point of view than making them laugh.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
That to me is wrong. It should be the policies themselves that should be the target of Mock The Week etc. When the politicians themselves are targeted then it switches from legitimate (albeit humourous) criticism to personal attacks. That's bullying. One example was the former Chief Secretary to The Treasury David Laws who resigned from the role after 17 days following a report by the Daily Telegraph that he had been making claims of £40,000 living expenses whilst renting rooms at a property owned by his lover James Lundie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Laws#Expenses_scandal,_resignation_and_suspension_from_Parliament

Now while this is out of the scope of this discussion it does show a worrying trend that the media as a whole and yes, television specifically have dramatically overstepped their mark in probing into private lives. Yes many politicians are world-class s***s but they are human.


I broadly agree on your first point but I don't think that the example you cite helps your argument.

Laws was found to have breached the rules and claimed expenses that he was not entitled to, there is a legitimate public interest in reporting that.

In lampooning people rather than policies I think there is room for nuance. If a show like Dead Ringers had a series of sketches picking on Chris Grayling's demonstrable failure at every job he has been given, or Boris Johnson's tendancy to perform U turns, I think that's fair comment.
NL
Ne1L C
That to me is wrong. It should be the policies themselves that should be the target of Mock The Week etc. When the politicians themselves are targeted then it switches from legitimate (albeit humourous) criticism to personal attacks. That's bullying. One example was the former Chief Secretary to The Treasury David Laws who resigned from the role after 17 days following a report by the Daily Telegraph that he had been making claims of £40,000 living expenses whilst renting rooms at a property owned by his lover James Lundie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Laws#Expenses_scandal,_resignation_and_suspension_from_Parliament

Now while this is out of the scope of this discussion it does show a worrying trend that the media as a whole and yes, television specifically have dramatically overstepped their mark in probing into private lives. Yes many politicians are world-class s***s but they are human.


I broadly agree on your first point but I don't think that the example you cite helps your argument.

Laws was found to have breached the rules and claimed expenses that he was not entitled to, there is a legitimate public interest in reporting that.

In lampooning people rather than policies I think there is room for nuance. If a show like Dead Ringers had a series of sketches picking on Chris Grayling's demonstrable failure at every job he has been given, or Boris Johnson's tendancy to perform U turns, I think that's fair comment.


What I was referring to was the intrusion into Laws private life. Yes of course the infraction of the rules regarding expenses had to be brought into the public eye. From what I understand Laws was a very private individual and probably wouldn’t want his relationship to be made public if he had been given the choice. His decision to reveal that he was in a relationship was I feel indirectly linked to the story.
PA
Parker
Good Private Eye podcast discussing BBC management.

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/eyeplayer/play-375
AN
all new Phil
I think The Mash Report is the show that crosses the line for many (given it is predominantly a one-sided rant by Nish Kumar, who makes no attempt to hide which way he leans), but hearing the same old “boooo Donald Trump” stuff across many shows is pretty boring because he’s an easy target, and also because it is assumed that everyone thinks he’s a moron. I think it’s that common thing of Twitter not being representative of the public as a whole, and there’s an assumption that most people are anti-Trump and anti-Tory because most of Twitter is.
GeekyJames and Larry the Loafer gave kudos
BR
Brekkie
Saying hearing the same old comments about Donald Trump though is like saying you're tired of documentaries framing Hitler in a bad light.

And although mocked for his hair and tiny hands, it is generally his actions that Trump is lapooned for, unlike say George W Bush who was generally mocked for being stupid but rarely for his politics.
AN
all new Phil
Not really.
AN
Andrew Founding member
Saying hearing the same old comments about Donald Trump though is like saying you're tired of documentaries framing Hitler in a bad light.

And although mocked for his hair and tiny hands, it is generally his actions that Trump is lapooned for, unlike say George W Bush who was generally mocked for being stupid but rarely for his politics.


An example is Graham Norton's opening jokes

Pretty much every week, it was one line, show a picture of Boris (or May), another one liner, show a picture of Trump, Lets get some guests on.

It becomes a tad boring when its basically the same two gags every week.
OM
Omnipresent
I suspect this will prove to be a non-story.

Comedy is meant to punch upwards. The first series of The Thick Of It targeted New Labour and Alastair Campbell. It then moved on to the Coalition and Steve Hilton.

Back to Tim Davie, the major strategy announcement seems to be this Thursday.
Night Thoughts and Brekkie gave kudos
JO
johnnyboy Founding member
Saying hearing the same old comments about Donald Trump though is like saying you're tired of documentaries framing Hitler in a bad light.


Personally, I am no fan of Trump but to compare him and his government to Hitler demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of history to.an egregious degree.

It's these types of hyberbolic, fact-free comparisons that people see through easily which means that Trump will likely win again.

A basic failure of logic and salespersonship.
JO
Jon
Saying hearing the same old comments about Donald Trump though is like saying you're tired of documentaries framing Hitler in a bad light.


Personally, I am no fan of Trump but to compare him and his government to Hitler demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of history to.an egregious degree.

It's these types of hyberbolic, fact-free comparisons that people see through easily which means that Trump will likely win again.

I assume you never saw last weeks RNC, in which virtually every speaker was doing just that, claiming the Democrats are going to enforce a radical form of socialism upon on the United States.

If you ever watch any of Trump’s speeches, you can see that he pretty much does the satirists job for them with little substance. So perhaps it’s that which people will see through. Not that it matters if most people see through it, it all comes down to whether a few swing voters in a select few states do.

I think the idea BBC topical shows should make less of Donald Trump antics because a section of the population in this country might like him is a bit ridiculous. Even people who lean towards the right in this country tend to think of him unfavourably. And the biggest supporters are the likes of Katie Hopkins who are quite far from the centre.

In terms of the Tories they are going to be the main target at the moment because they’re the ones making the decisions that affect the country. Other parties are only really making decisions that affect themselves.
Last edited by Jon on 1 September 2020 11:22pm - 2 times in total

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