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Networked ITV - 1990s and before...

(August 2010)

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A6
Aylett 67
Steven O posted:
jjne posted:
Aylett 67 posted:
Coming from the Border region idents and start ups were quite basic. Going back 30 years you had a blue background, the DY ident on the right in white and BORDER TELEVISION to the right in white Arial. Border's start up consisted of this ident with the voice of Alan Cartner doing the IBA announcement, followed by some sixties style instrumental and then Keltic Kavalcade, that rousing Scottish march which was sometimes called the Border Television March. Then either Clive Champney or Allan Cartner would wish you a very good morning.


I always found Border's approach quite puzzling really.

Most of the smaller stations (my own Tyne Tees included) had rather basic, rough-and-ready transmission facilities, but the majority of them made up for this by creating personalities of the on-screen announcers, and doing a lot of stuff live rather than pre-packaged which made for a station that seemed much more 'alive' than some others. All done very cheaply as well.

There was no reason Border couldn't have gone the same way. Instead they seemed to be stuck in an early 70s Granada/YTV timewarp, with very slow, deliberate presentation, graphics that didn't change for years on end, very little engagement with the viewer that I could see, and an emphasis on professionalism rather than friendliness. An interesting choice given the lack of budget.

Then fast-forward to around 1988, and the station suddenly comes to life -- at the exact moment the rest of the network is starting to go back the other way.


Both Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were very much of the 'old school' of presentation. However, when John Myers joined the announcing team in 1984 it did pep Border's continuity slightly (especially when John did the Border Birthdays spots). I think the change of direction in 1988 may have been down to both Allan and Clive leaving Border that year, Allan moving to Tyne Tees, while Clive retired. A certain Derek Batey also left Border's employ around the same time, IIRC.


Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were seen as too old school and a lot of younger viewers used to call Border Boredom or Boring Border as it did have this conservative, stiff feel to its pres and programming.
As for Derek Batey, you might be interested to know he is still very much alive and a familiar figure in the village near Carlisle where he has lived since the sixties.
SO
Steven O
Aylett 67 posted:
Steven O posted:
jjne posted:
Aylett 67 posted:
Coming from the Border region idents and start ups were quite basic. Going back 30 years you had a blue background, the DY ident on the right in white and BORDER TELEVISION to the right in white Arial. Border's start up consisted of this ident with the voice of Alan Cartner doing the IBA announcement, followed by some sixties style instrumental and then Keltic Kavalcade, that rousing Scottish march which was sometimes called the Border Television March. Then either Clive Champney or Allan Cartner would wish you a very good morning.


I always found Border's approach quite puzzling really.

Most of the smaller stations (my own Tyne Tees included) had rather basic, rough-and-ready transmission facilities, but the majority of them made up for this by creating personalities of the on-screen announcers, and doing a lot of stuff live rather than pre-packaged which made for a station that seemed much more 'alive' than some others. All done very cheaply as well.

There was no reason Border couldn't have gone the same way. Instead they seemed to be stuck in an early 70s Granada/YTV timewarp, with very slow, deliberate presentation, graphics that didn't change for years on end, very little engagement with the viewer that I could see, and an emphasis on professionalism rather than friendliness. An interesting choice given the lack of budget.

Then fast-forward to around 1988, and the station suddenly comes to life -- at the exact moment the rest of the network is starting to go back the other way.


Both Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were very much of the 'old school' of presentation. However, when John Myers joined the announcing team in 1984 it did pep Border's continuity slightly (especially when John did the Border Birthdays spots). I think the change of direction in 1988 may have been down to both Allan and Clive leaving Border that year, Allan moving to Tyne Tees, while Clive retired. A certain Derek Batey also left Border's employ around the same time, IIRC.


Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were seen as too old school and a lot of younger viewers used to call Border Boredom or Boring Border as it did have this conservative, stiff feel to its pres and programming.
As for Derek Batey, you might be interested to know he is still very much alive and a familiar figure in the village near Carlisle where he has lived since the sixties.


Good to know that Derek is still with us. He took Mr & Mrs around the holiday camp circuit after the series finished - in fact my parents met him after he did a show at Butlin's Southcoast World in 1994 and found him to be a very friendly man. When they said that they were from Duns he knew where it was straightaway, and even signed a Mr & Mrs bookmark for them!

Another announcer I recall was the late Pat Doody, who had to stop reading one lunchtime bulletin in the late-1980s after suffering a coughing fit on-air. He committed suicide in 1990 and ironically was announcing on Border the previous evening.
A6
Aylett 67
Steven O posted:
Aylett 67 posted:
Steven O posted:
jjne posted:
Aylett 67 posted:
Coming from the Border region idents and start ups were quite basic. Going back 30 years you had a blue background, the DY ident on the right in white and BORDER TELEVISION to the right in white Arial. Border's start up consisted of this ident with the voice of Alan Cartner doing the IBA announcement, followed by some sixties style instrumental and then Keltic Kavalcade, that rousing Scottish march which was sometimes called the Border Television March. Then either Clive Champney or Allan Cartner would wish you a very good morning.


I always found Border's approach quite puzzling really.

Most of the smaller stations (my own Tyne Tees included) had rather basic, rough-and-ready transmission facilities, but the majority of them made up for this by creating personalities of the on-screen announcers, and doing a lot of stuff live rather than pre-packaged which made for a station that seemed much more 'alive' than some others. All done very cheaply as well.

There was no reason Border couldn't have gone the same way. Instead they seemed to be stuck in an early 70s Granada/YTV timewarp, with very slow, deliberate presentation, graphics that didn't change for years on end, very little engagement with the viewer that I could see, and an emphasis on professionalism rather than friendliness. An interesting choice given the lack of budget.

Then fast-forward to around 1988, and the station suddenly comes to life -- at the exact moment the rest of the network is starting to go back the other way.


Both Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were very much of the 'old school' of presentation. However, when John Myers joined the announcing team in 1984 it did pep Border's continuity slightly (especially when John did the Border Birthdays spots). I think the change of direction in 1988 may have been down to both Allan and Clive leaving Border that year, Allan moving to Tyne Tees, while Clive retired. A certain Derek Batey also left Border's employ around the same time, IIRC.


Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were seen as too old school and a lot of younger viewers used to call Border Boredom or Boring Border as it did have this conservative, stiff feel to its pres and programming.
As for Derek Batey, you might be interested to know he is still very much alive and a familiar figure in the village near Carlisle where he has lived since the sixties.


Good to know that Derek is still with us. He took Mr & Mrs around the holiday camp circuit after the series finished - in fact my parents met him after he did a show at Butlin's Southcoast World in 1994 and found him to be a very friendly man. When they said that they were from Duns he knew where it was straightaway, and even signed a Mr & Mrs bookmark for them!

Another announcer I recall was the late Pat Doody, who had to stop reading one lunchtime bulletin in the late-1980s after suffering a coughing fit on-air. He committed suicide in 1990 and ironically was announcing on Border the previous evening.


Pat Doody had serious financial problems AIRC and gassed himself in his car.
IS
Inspector Sands
Steven O posted:
He committed suicide in 1990 and ironically was announcing on Border the previous evening.

Thank you Ms Morrisette Rolling Eyes
SO
Steven O
Aylett 67 posted:
Steven O posted:
Another announcer I recall was the late Pat Doody, who had to stop reading one lunchtime bulletin in the late-1980s after suffering a coughing fit on-air. He committed suicide in 1990 and ironically was announcing on Border the previous evening.


Pat Doody had serious financial problems AIRC and gassed himself in his car.


I remember being shocked when I heard the news that he had died. There was a small article in the Daily Record a few months later of the inquest into Pat's death ("Cash Agony Of TV Man") which mentioned his financial problems - IIRC the iinquest returned an open verdict.

Pat also of course did the voice-over for Mr & Mrs and I seem to recall that he voiced some ads for Metro Radio in the mid-80s.
RM
Ryan Morgan
I believe that this is all that is left of HTV Wales's now redundant presentation facilitates in Cardiff

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twindx/327271880/

(Photo courtesy of Irregular Shed on Flickr)
A6
Aylett 67
Pat Doody, Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were the main announcers and assistant newsreaders for Border 30 years ago, with Eric Wallace and Keith Macklin presenting Border News and Lookaround and Derek Batey hosting the entertainment shows. Batey was also the programme director, something I doubt Bob Monkhouse would do at Central.
Border was poverty stricken for most of its existence, although they did manage to branch out into new areas of programming in the mid eighties like BMX Beat and The Krankies that earned them some badly needed money.
:-(
A former member
Aylett 67 posted:
Pat Doody, Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were the main announcers and assistant newsreaders for Border 30 years ago, with Eric Wallace and Keith Macklin presenting Border News and Lookaround and Derek Batey hosting the entertainment shows. Batey was also the programme director, something I doubt Bob Monkhouse would do at Central.
Border was poverty stricken for most of its existence, although they did manage to branch out into new areas of programming in the mid eighties like BMX Beat and The Krankies that earned them some badly needed money.


Im surprised ITA never just spilt the company in two and give it to STV and Granada but with strict conditions
JJ
jjne
Aylett 67 posted:
I certainly would never class Clive Champney as more professional than friendly, he was both and often cracked jokes on air.


This wasn't a comment about the announcers themselves particularly -- more the overall policy of austerity that seemed to dominate the pres department at the time.

Although to be fair I never much liked Allan Cartner while he was at Tyne Tees. His style did not sit well with the station's approach really, he seemed far to stuffy for the station. Always seemed far more suited to the staid YTV, and he was becoming embarrassing toward the end when every other station was becoming increasingly flashy and here was TTTV persevering with an announcement style that was very much of the 1950s ("This... is... Tyne Tees... and it's time now for The Bill") -- although to be fair he wasn't doing that many shifts by then; Karen Petch being more likely as a stand-in in 1995/96 who appeared in-vision and, despite never really 'getting' the whole unscripted "wing it" ethos of her colleagues in Newcastle, didn't do a bad job.
MA
Markymark
Aylett 67 posted:
Batey was also the programme director, something I doubt Bob Monkhouse would do at Central.


Because Monkhouse was a non 'staff' performer contracted by ATV. Batey was a member of Border's senior management, who decided to be an on screen performer in addition. Much as Jack Hargraeves, who was Southern TV's PD, who also opted to present, notably 'Out of Town' and 'How'.
SO
Steven O
Aylett 67 posted:
Pat Doody, Allan Cartner and Clive Champney were the main announcers and assistant newsreaders for Border 30 years ago, with Eric Wallace and Keith Macklin presenting Border News and Lookaround and Derek Batey hosting the entertainment shows. Batey was also the programme director, something I doubt Bob Monkhouse would do at Central.
Border was poverty stricken for most of its existence, although they did manage to branch out into new areas of programming in the mid eighties like BMX Beat and The Krankies that earned them some badly needed money.



Which leads me nicely... Wink

When Border's version of Mr & Mrs was networked in 1973, the first series was recorded at Tyne Tees as ITV wanted the show to go out in colour and Border was only equipped for black and white. The money made from the joint Border/Tyne Tees editions of Mr & Mrs enabled colour equipment to be installed at Carlisle and allow the show to return 'home'.

It was very much a family affair as far as Allan Cartner was concerned, as his twin brother Bill also worked for Border as a producer. Allan contributed a piece, shortly before he died in 1997, for Mary Scott-Parker's book about Border and in it he mentions that in his early days at the station that as well as combining announcing and newsreading duties, he also read out the farming prices and, believe it or not, the pigeon release times. He was also a stickler for accuracy regarding place-name pronunciation, and one of his first tasks at Border was to compile a guide listing the correct pronunciation of every place-name in the region. However, this didn't stop Daphne Neville on one occasion during a late-night bulletin from pronouncing Cockburnspath as it is written (it is pronounced as Co'burnspath).
RO
robertclark125
Here's a thought about networked programming shown on Border, and especially issues with rights. Border's territory of course covers southern Scotland. What would be the situation where BBC Scotland had the rights to show a live sporting event, or even highlights, in Scotland, but ITV had the rights in England?

An example came in 1997, when Channel 5 had the rights to show the France v New Zealand rugby union series, but BBC Scotland had the scottish rights to show said games. Could Border split its territory back then or not?

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