Networked ITV - 1990s and before...

I can't remember when they went.

To confuse it, on the two clips of that afternoon the other 2 programmes shown are preceded by the Thames ident, but one was definately their programme (What's My Line) and the other was an import (Country Practise)

Here is another one of those new newspaper cutting:

Frontcaps stopped on the 1st January 1988.

Although several programmes continued to have them burned-in for quite a while afterwards... I remember quite a few fumbled attempts to cover up YTV's frontcap for example.

TVS's "All Clued Up" (1989 episodes) were still causing problems occasionally for TTTV in 1991.

(That said, a few TTTV frontcaps from 1991 episodes of the regional programme "Northern Eye" were still slipping through during the C3NE period).

Thanks for that. Do you know why there were stopped in the first place? I cant remember why.

Not sure. Presumably it was that old chestnut put forward by the branding people that multiple channel identities on one station was 'confusing' to the viewer.

Although why that same 'confused' viewer wouldn't be bamboozled by the various film company idents was never made clear.

Obviously there were shall we say the rebellious few companies, YTV still had their frontcap burned into their programmes (if you have the series 2 DVD of The New Statesman from 1989, all episodes have the Liquid gold ident at the beginning), you had Central with their endcap from Autumn 1988, there's evidence of a short lived Anglia endcap, again only lasting as long as Central's.

Presumably they got ditched because of 1989 and all that...

Yes -- I have a Betamax tape of that series, recorded on Tyne Tees. On episode 3, IVC cuts to the start of the YTV ident, which is then hastily cut to a Tyne Tees ident slide, and the music of the ident is faded up slightly twice before the transmission controller wipes the TTTV slide into the programme a couple of seconds late. Right old mess. The other episodes are handled better, although ep 5 has the YTV ident completely intact, and before ep 4 you can see Bill Steel glance over to his monitor a couple of times before the programme begins. Clearly YTV were signalling the start of the programme as being the point at which the ident started!

Yes, the frontcaps officially went at the start of 1988, but some companies continued to show them when present, and continued to burn them onto their local, and networked material. YTV in particular continued with frontcaps. I saw episodes of Coronation Street on YTV in 1988-89 and these had the Granada frontcap in place, just as previously, but the theme music didn't start playing until the cross fade to the opening titles was complete. This did appear to be burnt onto the film, and not a caption inserted locally by YTV.

Bearing in mind that as well as these programmes, virtually everything produced prior to 1988 would have had frontcaps on the tapes, I do wonder what information was communicated to the other companies when these were networked. The countdown clocks would have been incorrect, and the frontcaps were of varying lengths, so would paperwork have reflected the time the frontcap ended as the official start time of the programme - or were companies just left to 'wing it', as in the New Statesman example? Either way, something of a nightmare for the local pres departments I reckon!

There's an example on You Tube somewhere of Children's ITV from 1990 where the presenter introduces the Raggy Dolls, and then there's an awkward pause as if they're waiting for the frontcap to finish. Of course Raggy Dolls would have been rolled by YTV - presumably still intent on putting their frontcap out - and then Central would have been trying to cover it up. You do wonder the politics that must have been going on behind the scenes. The weird thing about that example is that Children's ITV had moved away from frontcaps much earlier than the rest of the network.

But Children's ITV would have been taken as a package from Central, even by YTV. So nobody would have seen a frontcap, if such existed.

I remember an incident, I think it was 1989, when on CITV, just prior to an episode of Rainbow, the in vision presenter was talking, and while talking we could hear the music for the Thames ident! However, the IVP didn't acknowledge this happening, and carried on regardless.

We then, after about 15 seconds, went into the programme, without any awkward wait. So, this would suggest that central were playing the tape forward to the end of the ident, ready to start from the titles, which is in fact what happened.

One possible theory is that it may have been a repeat, I.e. pre 1988 edition, I can't honestly remember.

Were YTV still doing the trick of having the Chevron be part of the title sequence by the time frontcaps were removed? 3-2-1 and First Tuesday were good examples.