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Networked ITV - 1990s and before...

(August 2010)

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MA
Markymark
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
It was keyed over to produce the tapes that S4C played out to cover C4's junctions.

Did S4C work from a dirty feed of C4 or did they get clean feeds?


I think 82 to 93 S4C had both C4's 'dirty' national feed, and a clean feed for sending programmes etc in advance, (some were timeshifted before they were seen on C4)


Certainly during the S4C Schools era (1993+) they were working from a dirty C4 feed; I have an example on tape of an S4C junction with a 'flash' of Channel 4 continuity at the end of the junction. I would imagine this would be the same during the ITV Schools 87-93 era.

I don't think there were actually many programmes 'simulcast' between Channel 4 and S4C back then (maybe the odd sports event or newsy programme) so they could get away with a dirty feed for these, probably the same sustaining feed sent to the ITV regions with everything there except ads. Of course, if they recorded a lot of programmes down the line from the 'live' C4 feed to play back later, I can see why a clean feed would be preferable.

As Marky said, if some programmes were clean fed to S4C prior to being transmitted on 4 (I think Brookside used to debut on S4C at 6pm) then surely this same feed could allow a programme to bypass C4 pres and go clean to S4C whilst actually being transmitted on 4?


On that subject I can remember being on holiday in Wales in the 1970s. Star Trek in those days was 20:10hrs on Monday night, but BBC Wales timeshifted it to Sunday afternoons. I watched it on BBC Wales, and during the end credits the London continuity announcer said' . .and Star Trek will be back again next Monday at ten past eight.. ", At which point the BBC Wales announcer chipped in.." and here on BBC Wales, at half past three next Sunday !'

I'm sure S4C were similarly caught out over the years !
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Si-Co posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Would they not have just sent tapes to Cardiff for Brookside? I would have thought tying up contribution circuits would be reserved for topical stuff that edited late?


I guess it depends how much stuff was actually timeshifted. If it was just the odd programme, like Brookside, then they could send tapes. Although ISTR a lot of programmes were common to both channels back then, so it may have been cheaper/easier to clean feed them across. Even now, timeshifted programmes on STV and UTV are normally recorded from the 'slightly-soiled' LNN/ITV1 feed.


I was thinking more of programmes which S4C would show before C4, so recording off-air isn't an option.
SC
Si-Co
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Si-Co posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Would they not have just sent tapes to Cardiff for Brookside? I would have thought tying up contribution circuits would be reserved for topical stuff that edited late?


I guess it depends how much stuff was actually timeshifted. If it was just the odd programme, like Brookside, then they could send tapes. Although ISTR a lot of programmes were common to both channels back then, so it may have been cheaper/easier to clean feed them across. Even now, timeshifted programmes on STV and UTV are normally recorded from the 'slightly-soiled' LNN/ITV1 feed.


I was thinking more of programmes which S4C would show before C4, so recording off-air isn't an option.


Unless they were fed over in advance for S4C to record, or even fed live from London as they were transmitted on S4C. I've no idea what would be cheapest or easiest.

On an unrelated note, these have just popped up on YouTube, three films showing inside Granada Telecine/CCR/ VT editing suite in the 60s - possibly not telling us mush we didn't already know, but very interesting nonetheless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OF2G6bbz4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLCJjITVGTQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2bxo4_29SY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
WP
WillPS
I can't recall any C4 content going out ahead on S4C? Certainly their post-10pm content was timeshifted quite badly - TV Offal (which they advertised, unlike C4!) was 4 weeks behind in the late 90s - and this was clearly an off-air recording as there was a couple of frames of the Channel 4 ident at the beginning!
SP
Steve in Pudsey
According to Si-Co earlier in this thread, Brookside was on S4C at 6pm, ahead of its showing on C4.
SC
Si-Co
Steve in Pudsey posted:
According to Si-Co earlier in this thread, Brookside was on S4C at 6pm, ahead of its showing on C4.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that Brookside was shown at 6pm on S4C in the era when Channel Four showed it at 8pm Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and later Mondays and Tuesdays (1982-87ish). That said, I can't remember the exact weeknights it went out on S4C, so it could possibly have still debuted on C4 and then been shown on S4C the following evening. The more I think about it, the more Wednesdays and Thursdays rings a bell for S4C at one stage during this era.

Wikipaedia says S4C always screened it at 10pm, although I dispute this, as I distinctly remember the 6pm scheduling in the mid 80s at least.
MA
Markymark
Si-Co posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
According to Si-Co earlier in this thread, Brookside was on S4C at 6pm, ahead of its showing on C4.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that Brookside was shown at 6pm on S4C in the era when Channel Four showed it at 8pm Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and later Mondays and Tuesdays (1982-87ish). That said, I can't remember the exact weeknights it went out on S4C, so it could possibly have still debuted on C4 and then been shown on S4C the following evening. The more I think about it, the more Wednesdays and Thursdays rings a bell for S4C at one stage during this era.

Wikipaedia says S4C always screened it at 10pm, although I dispute this, as I distinctly remember the 6pm scheduling in the mid 80s at least.


I distinctly recall Brookside on S4C at 18:00hrs, though there were concerns from the IBA about some of the content being rather near the knuckle for 6pm, (I recall the Saturday omnibus at 17:00hrs on C4 had to be tweaked now and again ?).

Anyway, it's possible the S4C showings were a day later than C4 ?

Don't forget also that in those primitive days without servers, time shifting anything before the original broadcast had finished was full of hazards, though the ad breaks every 20-30 mins helped.
SC
Si-Co
Markymark posted:
Si-Co posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
According to Si-Co earlier in this thread, Brookside was on S4C at 6pm, ahead of its showing on C4.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that Brookside was shown at 6pm on S4C in the era when Channel Four showed it at 8pm Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and later Mondays and Tuesdays (1982-87ish). That said, I can't remember the exact weeknights it went out on S4C, so it could possibly have still debuted on C4 and then been shown on S4C the following evening. The more I think about it, the more Wednesdays and Thursdays rings a bell for S4C at one stage during this era.

Wikipaedia says S4C always screened it at 10pm, although I dispute this, as I distinctly remember the 6pm scheduling in the mid 80s at least.


I distinctly recall Brookside on S4C at 18:00hrs, though there were concerns from the IBA about some of the content being rather near the knuckle for 6pm, (I recall the Saturday omnibus at 17:00hrs on C4 had to be tweaked now and again ?).

Anyway, it's possible the S4C showings were a day later than C4 ?

Don't forget also that in those primitive days without servers, time shifting anything before the original broadcast had finished was full of hazards, though the ad breaks every 20-30 mins helped.


Thanks - yes I think it was around 1984/85 it was shown at 18:00 - and possibly before. I can understand it being moved to 22:00, as certainly by the 90s the storylines were becoming more controversial and sensationalist (for their era).

I remember Sheila's rape scene being censored in 1986 for the omnibus, and also the 1994 lesbian kiss.
NW
nwtv2003
By the mid 1990s Brookside was always on at 10pm on S4C, even Mr Redmond praised this decision oddly. Countdown was an odd one, in the early days it was always at 1pm, by the mid 1990s it was 5.30pm, then became 3.30pm (which I think was a day behind), it got bumped up an hour when S4C had to show Richard and Judy live, and by the time S4C analogue closed it was 2.15pm daily, again a day behind Channel 4.
SW
Steve Williams
nwtv2003 posted:
By the mid 1990s Brookside was always on at 10pm on S4C, even Mr Redmond praised this decision oddly.


The original slot for Brookie on S4C was five o'clock, I think, but it was indeed later moved to ten, and I know a lot of people on the border (and probably in Liverpool, where you can get S4C) used that showing as a useful catch-up if they missed it earlier, very much like the BBC3 'stEnders repeat.
:-(
A former member
How many English programmes were or are still broadcast on S4c?
AB
aberdeenboy
None now... since digital switchover S4C has been an entirely Welsh language channel. It is unconnected to C4 - it merely has the fourth EPG slot in Wales.

S4C's analogue service used to have several hours a day of C4 programmes but mostly in the afternoon or after about 10pm. Sometimes simulcast - sometimes timeshifted. Many significant C4 programmes weren't shown though.

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