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Networked ITV - 1990s and before...

(August 2010)

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CR
ColonelRed
jjne posted:
Did Border play out their own trailers etc or was this also taken over by Granada?


Border did all their own presentation, Granada just literally played out the ads, on a cue from the Border TC
SC
Si-Co
jjne posted:
Did Border play out their own trailers etc or was this also taken over by Granada?


Border did all their own presentation, Granada just literally played out the ads, on a cue from the Border TC


Would I be right in assuming Border lost all lines to other ITV sites - similar to what happened at Tyne Tees - so the only way they could put a network programme to air was via Granada?

What was the actual date this arrangement came into place? I have heard conflicting stories about this; September 1993 and December 1993.
PT
Paul T
jjne posted:
Cumbria viewers are well-used to a NE&C regional programme.


Although Border comes a lot further south than BBC NE&C does - and Border has a proper opt in the programme unlike BBC NE&C
MA
Markymark
jjne posted:
Cumbria viewers are well-used to a NE&C regional programme.


Although Border comes a lot further south than BBC NE&C does - and Border has a proper opt in the programme unlike BBC NE&C


Yes true, the South Lakeland transmitters were switched to Border in 1982, to make it more commercially viable.
No reason now why they shouldn't be returned to Granada, (that would mirror the BBC arrangements, that have always had them tied to the 'North West'.
CR
ColonelRed
Si-Co posted:
jjne posted:
Did Border play out their own trailers etc or was this also taken over by Granada?


Border did all their own presentation, Granada just literally played out the ads, on a cue from the Border TC


Would I be right in assuming Border lost all lines to other ITV sites - similar to what happened at Tyne Tees - so the only way they could put a network programme to air was via Granada?

What was the actual date this arrangement came into place? I have heard conflicting stories about this; September 1993 and December 1993.


No, Border still did all their own networking from Carlisle. From memory it was announced in September 1993, and came into effect on 1st January 1994. The merged schedule was staggered though, to try and reduce the volume of viewer complaints (it failed, especially in the case of Prisoner Cell Block H!)
RJ
RJG
jjne posted:
Cumbria viewers are well-used to a NE&C regional programme.


Although Border comes a lot further south than BBC NE&C does - and Border has a proper opt in the programme unlike BBC NE&C


Yes true, the South Lakeland transmitters were switched to Border in 1982, to make it more commercially viable.
No reason now why they shouldn't be returned to Granada, (that would mirror the BBC arrangements, that have always had them tied to the 'North West'.


IIRC the viewers served by the South Lakeland transmitters weren't keen, at the time, with the switch to Border. At that time the Carlisle-based station was in a cost-cutting phase and closing down at around 11.30 each night, whilst Granada's scheduled ran later. Going further back, when broadcasting hours were relaxed in the 70s, Border and some other smaller ITV companies didn't operate much of a daytime schedule, but stuck to the old pattern of morning and afternoon schools programmes, when the bigger companies showed schools programming only in the mornings.

I should add that, in the early 70s, I worked alongside people from the Peebles area who regarded Border as a "foreign" station with STV their station of choice. Of course, once the UHF services began, Peebles and Innerleithen were served by relays of Selkirk, whilst other parts of Peeblesshire received STV from transmitters like Broughton and West Linton which were fed by Black Hill and Craigkelly respectively. It should also be noted that the majority of relay transmitters in Dumfries and Galloway and a couple in South Ayrshire (Pinwherry and Ballantrae) were fed by Caldbeck and radiated BBC 1 North East until the end of the 70s and BBC 2 England (with North East local programming) into the 90s. In the early and mid 70s a fair number of viewers in the south-west of Scotland held onto their 405 line or dual standard sets just so they could watch BBC Scotland programmes broadcast from Sandale, albeit in black-and-white. There were also pockets in South West Scotland where the better signal was actually from Ulster. By the same token there were coastal areas as far south as Northumberland where the only UHF service for quite a few years came all the way from Durris in North-East Scotland. Many aerials in Eyemouth were pointed that way, even after the opening of the local (Border) relay.
Last edited by RJG on 20 August 2011 11:45am - 2 times in total
C8
Channel 8
I remember visiting Redcar on the Teesside coast in the 1990's and where we stayed the TV was tuned into Grampian as well as Tyne Tees. I seem to remember that in the Tyne Tees edition of the TVTimes the regional variations box listed Grampian as well as Border and Yorkshire.
SC
Si-Co
Si-Co posted:
jjne posted:
Did Border play out their own trailers etc or was this also taken over by Granada?


Border did all their own presentation, Granada just literally played out the ads, on a cue from the Border TC


Would I be right in assuming Border lost all lines to other ITV sites - similar to what happened at Tyne Tees - so the only way they could put a network programme to air was via Granada?

What was the actual date this arrangement came into place? I have heard conflicting stories about this; September 1993 and December 1993.


No, Border still did all their own networking from Carlisle. From memory it was announced in September 1993, and came into effect on 1st January 1994. The merged schedule was staggered though, to try and reduce the volume of viewer complaints (it failed, especially in the case of Prisoner Cell Block H!)


Interesting. So effectively the only real change was that ads and locally-scheduled programmes came up the line from Manchester and all Border played out themselves was local news and the odd local (ie. Border only) programme? So they would still link up to say YTV for a clean feed of Emmerdale, but then link to a feed from Granada for the commercial break, and then rejoin YTV for part two of Emmerdale. To a layman like myself, that sounds more complicated than playing out the ads themselves or having everything routed via Granada! I can see how it saved money having the ads sold and played out from Manchester, but it would appear to involve more switching than the previous arrangement.

I'm told that the switch to the Granada feed for Sons and Daughters took place over Christmas 1993 - the last 'Border' episode was shown on 22/12/93 and the first 'Granada' one on 29/12/93, a jump of 81 episodes.

I remember visiting Redcar on the Teesside coast in the 1990's and where we stayed the TV was tuned into Grampian as well as Tyne Tees. I seem to remember that in the Tyne Tees edition of the TVTimes the regional variations box listed Grampian as well as Border and Yorkshire.


Yes, I remember thinking it strange that Grampian was listed as a regional variation in the Tyne Tees TVTimes! It was surprising how far away certain transmitters could be received, sometimes with a signal quality that rivalled a local transmitter. HTV could be watched quite clearly on much of the North Lancashire coast and in Greater Manchester. On the North Northumberland we could sometimes receive a YTV signal (not particularly watchable) - which I assume was coming from Belmont or a dependent. The North Sea provided a pretty good line of sight to distant transmitters.
:-(
A former member
Im wonder will Granada, Borders, Tyne tess and Yorkshire just did not just create a daily slot to place all the old running slots. thus allowing no episodes to be skipped. Im not sure how TT would have able to slot in the 50 missing Blockbusters episodes
JJ
jjne
Agreed, and this is what I was getting at when I asked about the trails.

It would have been far more straightforward for Granada/Border to have done much as you've described -- feed programming and trails from Manchester (the latter simply being cart entries to be played out before/after the ads, and the former being switched at Manchester at the appropriate times). This would leave Border free to deal with idents/IVC/slides etc from Carlisle in much the same way Newcastle did in early 1993.

Still, with Border being independent, political factors will have come into play.
PE
Pete Founding member
Si-Co posted:
On the North Northumberland we could sometimes receive a YTV signal (not particularly watchable) - which I assume was coming from Belmont or a dependent. The North Sea provided a pretty good line of sight to distant transmitters.


In Warkworth the TV in the living room picked up Network North *LIVE FROM BILSDALE* and the one in the dining room had the normal Tyne Tees Tonight.
SC
Si-Co
Im wonder will Granada, Borders, Tyne tess and Yorkshire just did not just create a daily slot to place all the old running slots. thus allowing no episodes to be skipped. Im not sure how TT would have able to slot in the 50 missing Blockbusters episodes


Tyne Tees could have easily avoided skipping two episodes of Prisoner. They'd been catching up with YTV quite rapidly as they scheduled it twice a week from 1991 (YTV just showed it once as week until the merger), and I think TTT were trying to catch up completely as they showed it three times a week for a while in late 1992, but ceased this, instead taking a Sunday night film from YTV. They could have squeezed two episodes in somewhere. (They also inadvertently skipped an episode in late 1992, so TTT actually missed out on three epsiodes.)

As for Young Doctors and ACP, they could have continued to show these locally in opposite time slots (TTT were ahead in Doctors but behind in ACP) so they could have shown ACP five times a week and Young Doctors twice, while YTV did the opposite, to bridge some of the gap. Blockbusters, as you say, would have been harder to schedule but not impossible. I assume YTV didn't want to employ someone extra at Newcastle to press play.

Pete posted:
Si-Co posted:
On the North Northumberland we could sometimes receive a YTV signal (not particularly watchable) - which I assume was coming from Belmont or a dependent. The North Sea provided a pretty good line of sight to distant transmitters.


In Warkworth the TV in the living room picked up Network North *LIVE FROM BILSDALE* and the one in the dining room had the normal Tyne Tees Tonight.


In Lesbury (only a few miles north-west of Warkworth), you could normally pick up a watchable Border - possibly from Berwick or Selkirk.

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