Missing Presentation thread

Maybe but I doubt it. In some ways, Carlton seemed torn when it came to network identity They were very much pro-ITV branding, which was evident even in some of their first set of idents, plus one of the 1996 ones. However, they also cared a lot about their own brand awareness and these two tendencies occasionally contradicted each other or created bizarre scenarios, such as how Central's identity was messed about (is it Central, Central ITV, Carlton, Carlton Central, ITV Cartlon etc?).

I do believe they were on board with the generic branding though. Remember, they did take the NPU trailers that came in in October 1998 and made Central and Westcountry take them too. Earlier that year, they began creating 'ITV' branded trailers themselves, even for London only programmes, plus on 'Next' captions and forced Central and Westcountry to implement the same policy. The only thing they didn't adopt from the October 1998 rebranding was the heart breakbumper, largely due to Carlton and Central not currently nor traditionally using breakbumpers, though Westcountry did have one and presumably continued using theirs. The heart breakbumper was, however, introduced retrospectively on all three stations when the Carlton star idents came into service in September 1999.

I do believe the quasi-Carltonized idents introduced on Central in Spring 1998 were actually made with Carlton's own ones back in 1996 and were intended to be implemented on the same day in November of that year. For whatever reason, the Central rebrand was aborted and the cake lived on for another year and a half or so. I don't think their eventual introduction in 1998 says anything about Carlton's intentions about adopting the rebrand. They clearly wanted rid of Central's own branding for at least two years previous and finally got their way, probably because Central's presentation or managerial staff had been sufficiently stripped of vetoes in such matters by that time. I think even then, Carlton intended for it to be a transitional arrangement. Note that no such idents were made for Westcountry. I sometimes think those idents were made for Central as a revenge for the lame idents Central made for Carlton back when they were first taken over back in 1994. Considering how good Central's own presentation was, Carlton must've expected far better from them.

As if Carlton werent consulted over the production of the package?

They will have been but still...

Well that is a interesting idea about Carlton wanting to introduce those ident in 1996 to Central, strangely Central brought in another new package in 1997, was that to make sure there were kept away for another year?

What did Carlton expect from Central? presentation was good but it was all about the cake nothing else. I don't think those 1995 ident were that bad, but still 10 years later and not a new ident had come in to practices. I think Carlton were over expecting and trying to cut cost.

Maybe Carlton put out those ident because there know cake would be gone either way within 6 months and wanted to get some money worth out of those ident sitting on the shelf for two years.

I still wonder what made all the company not take the idents from 98, of course there were still plenty of disagreements about where to slot in programmes

When it comes to Carlton's idents, I always think their presentation went from the first ones being the worst to that last ones being the best. I find the 1993 ones annoying and would've hated them if I'd have lived in London at the time. That said, they were in some ways ahead of their time, using people rather than computer graphics; something that would be mainstream in TV presentation less than a decade later. I find the 1994 ones less offensive but that's because they're far too dull to make such an impression. At the time, Central arguably had the best in house presentation department in the ITV network, if not the country, so you'd naturally have high expectations if you commissioned them do so something for you. The thing is, Central were adept at their own style, which they'd been perfecting for years and doing the same thing for Carlton was a different kettle of fish. There was no cake to play around with, which could be made to fly around the screen or break apart and come back together again. Indeed, the big problem Carlton had was that it lacked an actual emblem of any real substance. What resulted were idents that were finely made but dull with a clear lack of inspiration. The best thing Carlton did was to go to Lambie-Nairn in 1996, who were probably the best in the business at the time. They knew the lack of emblem and Carlton's whole identity literally just being the word 'Carlton' was a weakness but they turned it on its head by making idents that involved wordplay or the various latters doing something amusing. I think they succeeded too. Lambie-Nairn also gave them their own logo/emblem in the 1999 logo in the form of a start and Carlton's image finally looked truly coherent, even though in reality, it would disappear entirely in a few short years.

I still think it ironic that Carlton commissioned Central for their 1994 look but got Lambie-Nairn to do Central only a couple of years later. If Lambie-Nairn could do a better job, then I suppose Carlton thought it'd be more economical if the same went for Central, rather than Central still having their own presentation department that looked after only their constituent part of the Carlton Empire. Why it never happened, I don't know. It may have involved job cuts at Central which Carlton couldn't get away with, or quite simply Central still had enough autonomy to say no. Central clearly had no intention of getting rid of the cake any time soon seen as they made a whole new batch of them in 1997. I think Carlton knew the ITV network would eventually merge into one company and whilst protective of its own name, cared little for Central and saw removing the cake as a progressive step, when they finally go round to doing it.

When did Central lose its play out control? was it moved to London before the CA?

Central's transmission was closed down in October 2004, almost two years after the local continuity went. When all continuity for Granada and Carlton regions was centralized into London bar Wales, the transmission departments for both Central and GMG North (Leeds) were otherwise unaffected. Only the Cardiff (HTV Wales & Westcountry) an Southampton (Meridian, Anglia & HTV West) transmission centres were shut down. This made Central unique in that it was the old standalone non-independent region to remain (although this was already technically the case). Why Central initially escaped, I'm not sure. It should be noted that Central is a large region in its own right though and had three advertising regions that needed to be played out. The London playout centre now had, in terms of advertising regions: London, Meridian (X3), Anglia (X3), HTV West, HTV Wales and Westcountry which was ten different feeds to look after. GMG North had six: Yorkshire (X2), Tyne Tees (X2) Granada and Border. Perhaps neither the Leeds nor London facilities could take more at the time. There may be someone who knows for sure. It moved to Leeds, as I said, in October 2004, meaning Leeds looks after nine advertising regions; an arrangement to continues to exist today.

On the same theme but getting slightly more back on topic; does anyone remember outside the ITV Network Centre HQ a series of plaques on the wall outside the main entrance? I only saw it on TV, usually when a merger story was featuring in the news. They seemed to be the hearts idents for each region. The thing is, I could've swore I saw a Westcountry one, complete with a white 'W' in the blue square where the company logo is for most of the other companies. Did anyone ever have a good look at this, maybe in person? As the network centre represented all the ITV companies, they all must've been there but I'm curious about what the plaque showed for, say, Grampian, and if I saw the Westcountry one as I imagined.

You didn't imagine it, I know the board you mean which appeared on the news stories, and there was definitely a hearts-style logo on that board for Westcountry, but not one for Central or Carlton London.

It has been reported that originally only Central was going to be re-branded, Westcountry was going to survive and simply change to using the standard hearts idents. It has also been claimed that hearts idents for Westcountry were actually made and ready to run, with the decision to rebrand as Carlton made very late in the day.

There could well be some legs to this, especially since Westcountry was still introducing new idents up until April/May 1999, long after Central had been de-caked (the very final set introduced by Westcountry were even made in widescreen whilst all other idents in use on ITV at the time were still 4:3, giving Westcountry the dubious honour of being the first ITV station to have Widescreen idents).

It's worth noting if you look around and research that the Central produced idents for Carlton infact didn't debut until September 1995, the refreshed 1993 idents (with the people but not talking) were still being shown in 1995 if YouTube clips are anything to by. The debut of the Central produced Carlton ident is on TV Ark, by the looks of it they were only on air 14 months.

I remember in the school library (many moons ago) there was a Television book that had a couple of pages about idents in them, in one they had a screen dump of a Carlton ident, that featured soap bubbles and was upside down, needless to say it was their Home & Away ident.

This thread has also reminded me of a page hidden away on The TV Room Plus website about presentation that didn't make it, needless to say there was the odd thing from GMG that never made it to air....

http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-032/main-001-01.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-032/main-001-02.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-032/main-001-03.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-032/main-001-04.jpg

The LWT promo slide being very very similar to the Yorkshire local idents and endboards that were introduced in Autumn 1999.

4 September 1995, when those nice Central made London ident appeared, TV ark has stated it will get correct by the end of the year, Oh joy it will have only taken 18 months! Yes the Carlton made Central ident appeared in April 1998 and disappeared in September 1999

Whats the direct link to the webpage with those ident on them?

Hi peeps, I just wanted to say the last few posts have been really interesting. Those 1998 Carltonized Central idents were just awful...a bit like the Station to be honest. The 1999 ones were excellent, though nearly everyone missed the Cake.

What is left of the Midland's Broadcasting industry is a joke...but that's another story.

http://tvfeatures.thetvroomplus.com/feature-29.html

I seem to remember around 2001/2 the blue Granada ident image doing the rounds on here, by the looks of it they were created in Leeds, by Balistixx, which I believe was the in-house design company at GMG, but by all means anyone correct me if I'm wrong.