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London DSO

4th/18th April (March 2012)

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GE
thegeek Founding member
If you'll excuse the terrible website: there's a DSO-related exhibition on at a gallery on Marylebone Road, with 1001 TVs, flickering away. Presumably some are tuned to ITV1, so will go to static next week, and the rest a fortnight later.

http://davidhallart.com/bio.html
JV
James Vertigan Founding member

There's usually a glitch around 15-20 seconds before the signal finally dies... I understand this is the backup battery power draining.


I don't know where you heard that from! The glitch you see is the parallel power drive being swiched off first. If you have a weak signal you see a step down in picture quality, the power drop is only 3dB of course so it's only going to be noticable in poor reception conditions, apart from that glitch. I can assure you there are no UPS style batteries used for transmitters, other than for generator starting should the public lekky supply fail


That is what I had gathered from comments on a couple of YouTube videos I'd seen - hence why I said "I understand" - I wasn't claiming it to be the truth. Clearly what I had learnt was wrong, though!
BU
buster
So...those of us who might be staying up to see them go (ahem...just enquiring for "a friend"....!) shouldn't wait up for Channel 5 then?
IS
Inspector Sands
It's more to do with the fact C5's UHF allocation not being used post DSO, the four main analogues also have back up facilites at Croydon, so they could stay on longer, while the replumbing is carried out at CP.

Although of course as they don't need to clear that frequency, there's no need to send someone to Croydon until the big job at CP is done.

I don't really see why they would go to the effort of backing up a service that's about to cease, and at Stage one they do some tests in the new high-powered MUXs don't they?

Quote:
Most confusing will be ITV taking BBC2's place between DSO1 & 2

For those few still relying on analogue. It's probably a good extra way of pointing out to them that things are changing.
IS
Inspector Sands
So...those of us who might be staying up to see them go (ahem...just enquiring for "a friend"....!) shouldn't wait up for Channel 5 then?

Sounds like it's best if you... er, your friend... might be better off watching everything switch off and then go to bed and set your alarm for 8ish.

Although of course things come on-air though out the night so you might want to get the matchsticks out
IS
Inspector Sands
I don't know where you heard that from! The glitch you see is the parallel power drive being swiched off first. If you have a weak signal you see a step down in picture quality, the power drop is only 3dB of course so it's only going to be noticable in poor reception conditions, apart from that glitch. I can assure you there are no UPS style batteries used for transmitters, other than for generator starting should the public lekky supply fail

I know that Crystal Palace doesn't have a generator back up, instead it uses they use supplies from 2 separate parts of the grid. I'm not sure if this is just because it's in an urban setting or whether it's the case in other sites too.
JV
James Vertigan Founding member
This sounds interesting: http://www.arqiva.com/corporate/press/archive/2012/2012-3-26%20-%20Crystal%20Palace%20tower%20lights%20up%20the%20London%20skies.pdf
MA
Markymark
It's more to do with the fact C5's UHF allocation not being used post DSO, the four main analogues also have back up facilites at Croydon, so they could stay on longer, while the replumbing is carried out at CP.

Although of course as they don't need to clear that frequency, there's no need to send someone to Croydon until the big job at CP is done.
I don't really see why they would go to the effort of backing up a service that's about to cease, and at Stage one they do some tests in the new high-powered MUXs don't they?


No, but at Stage 1, BBC 1 and C4 analogue with probably have to go off the air overnight, while the new PSB 1 Tx is plumbed in, (replacing the old ITV analogue transmitter). The BBC 2 analogue tx will need to have its input changed over to ITV.

It would be a lot easier, to switch the whole lot off at CP at midnight, and instantly switch BBC 1, ITV (ex BBC2) and C4 on at Croydon, for the few hours the replumbing at CP will take ?

We'll find out in 8 days from now !

Most confusing will be ITV taking BBC2's place between DSO1 & 2

For those few still relying on analogue. It's probably a good extra way of pointing out to them that things are changing.


Yes, true !

I know that Crystal Palace doesn't have a generator back up, instead it uses they use supplies from 2 separate parts of the grid. I'm not sure if this is just because it's in an urban setting or whether it's the case in other sites too.


Yes, all main sites, with the exception of Bilsdsale (very remote) and Rowridge (on an island Smile )
MA
Markymark
Generator back up is however used for DTT at all main sites, and that will continue post DSO, (with upgraded units to cope with the higher power),
IS
Inspector Sands
No, but at Stage 1, BBC 1 and C4 analogue with probably have to go off the air overnight, while the new PSB 1 Tx is plumbed in, (replacing the old ITV analogue transmitter). The BBC 2 analogue tx will need to have its input changed over to ITV.

If 1 and 4 have to go off then I'd have thought that 2 will as well. Any idea how much 'plumbing' actually needs doing? They've been testing the new MUXs over the last few months so wouldn't they already be connected to the aerials? Or is the overnight work more about finalising the new setup and removing the old TXs from circuit

I assume that putting ITV into the old BBC2 TX is just a case of running a cable through from the ITV/C4 part of the building to the BBC transmitter room.


Generator back up is however used for DTT at all main sites, and that will continue post DSO, (with upgraded units to cope with the higher power),

Interesting. I assume it's more viable to do that for DTT because there's less power needed?
IS
Inspector Sands

They need to unplug the brand new transmitters to plug in the lights though Laughing
MA
Markymark
No, but at Stage 1, BBC 1 and C4 analogue with probably have to go off the air overnight, while the new PSB 1 Tx is plumbed in, (replacing the old ITV analogue transmitter). The BBC 2 analogue tx will need to have its input changed over to ITV.

If 1 and 4 have to go off then I'd have thought that 2 will as well. Any idea how much 'plumbing' actually needs doing? They've been testing the new MUXs over the last few months so wouldn't they already be connected to the aerials? Or is the overnight work more about finalising the new setup and removing the old TXs from circuit


AIUI at present the analogues are being radiated from the uppermost aerial (S1). Low power DTT is from the lower one, S2, that will act as standby post DSO. Post DSO channels will use the S1, so between April 4th and 18th, the S1 will carry PSB 1, BBC 1, ITV, and C4. I've visited another site on DSO eve a while back, there's an awful lot of temporary feeders (and by feeder, that's 6inch diameter copper piping) connecting the old analogue transmitters, to the new 6 Tx DTT combining units. Everything is duplicated for the upper and lower half of the aerials. The high power tests that are conducted a few months prior to DSO, usually do one half of the aerial at a time, and the second half the following night, to minimise disruption.

London does have the luxury of having the four analogues backed up at Croydon, and Croydon does seem to have been used for periods recently (a few hours at at time) to allow complete of partial shut downs at CP for DSO work;


I assume that putting ITV into the old BBC2 TX is just a case of running a cable through from the ITV/C4 part of the building to the BBC transmitter room.


That's what I thought, but at most other sites where similar swaps have occurred, the swap is done post TIE/PIE bays at the RF drive stage ! I'm told it's simpler, and saves messing about with very different legacy methods the BBC and IBA had for input signal processing, and telemetry.

Generator back up is however used for DTT at all main sites, and that will continue post DSO, (with upgraded units to cope with the higher power),

Interesting. I assume it's more viable to do that for DTT because there's less power needed?


Yes ! Though there's an enormous genny at Rowridge, where total Tx power (up the feeders) is very high, owing to horiz and vertical radiation components post DSO
Last edited by Markymark on 26 March 2012 7:23pm

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