ST
From the interview on BBC Breakfast this morning, the corporation's issue seems to be that Carol Thatcher has refused to apologise.
Clearly this wasn't a 'private' comment, as 15 people were in the room, and some made their objections known at the time. However, what is disturbing is that she should be asked to make a formal public apology - surely one to the people in the room would be sufficient, if she felt it necessary to do so.
Whatever the case, it's hardly a matter for public debate and even less a matter for her employment status...which is perhaps what has made her take the beligerant stance she has adopted.
Clearly this wasn't a 'private' comment, as 15 people were in the room, and some made their objections known at the time. However, what is disturbing is that she should be asked to make a formal public apology - surely one to the people in the room would be sufficient, if she felt it necessary to do so.
Whatever the case, it's hardly a matter for public debate and even less a matter for her employment status...which is perhaps what has made her take the beligerant stance she has adopted.
JR
er... no. Ross made a joke that was purely in jest. True, it was in awful taste, but it's no worse than stuff that goes on between mates at the pub. (It was also true.) Thatcher made a racist joke , which discriminates against people based on the colour of their skin. True, it may also have been purely in jest, but it is still racist.
I imagine a lot more people were offended by the 'golliwog' joke than by Ross/Brand.
Showbizguru posted:
I wonder if the people ringing up in support of Carol Thatcher are - like me - infuriated at the BBC's pathetic double standards over her and Mr Ross.
er... no. Ross made a joke that was purely in jest. True, it was in awful taste, but it's no worse than stuff that goes on between mates at the pub. (It was also true.) Thatcher made a racist joke , which discriminates against people based on the colour of their skin. True, it may also have been purely in jest, but it is still racist.
I imagine a lot more people were offended by the 'golliwog' joke than by Ross/Brand.
PE
Pete
Founding member
well no, you can get away with making "racist jokes" to an extent. it would appear what has annoyed people is that she didn't say something along the lines of
"oh so and so has such silly hair he looks like a golliwog from the jam jar" as her people have implied.
what the bbc are saying is she said more like "ho ho ho he beat the golliwog" and - even more worth a mention - the player in question isn't even one with hair that would make him resemble said mascot, therefore putting it in a different light.
basically, if jo brand was shocked, it must have been a bit iffy.
in addition the public apology request appeared after someone leaked it to the papers, which is when the half apology appeared, it seems she had refused to apologise to the team for upsetting them beforehand.
"oh so and so has such silly hair he looks like a golliwog from the jam jar" as her people have implied.
what the bbc are saying is she said more like "ho ho ho he beat the golliwog" and - even more worth a mention - the player in question isn't even one with hair that would make him resemble said mascot, therefore putting it in a different light.
basically, if jo brand was shocked, it must have been a bit iffy.
in addition the public apology request appeared after someone leaked it to the papers, which is when the half apology appeared, it seems she had refused to apologise to the team for upsetting them beforehand.
CW
Charlie Wells
Moderator
Worth reading this BBC News article...
"The following day, a number of people who had either heard the comment or learned of it, made their feelings known to the show's executive producer who raised the issue with Carol."
...suggests that it's quite possible some of those offended worked on the show, which rather explains why she's no longer working for the One Show.
"The following day, a number of people who had either heard the comment or learned of it, made their feelings known to the show's executive producer who raised the issue with Carol."
...suggests that it's quite possible some of those offended worked on the show, which rather explains why she's no longer working for the One Show.
JA
The point is, why did she HAVE to say it? She could have easily used his name, or said "that black fellow, tennis player" rather than using a frankly outdated and nowadays racist term. Be it in private conversation or not, she was still in the workplace and she still used the term to colleagues who found it offensive.
Speaks volumes though that Thatcher is trying to deflect scorn from the issue onto the BBC's treatment of her mother though.
Also speaks volumes that this number of stories (for something that really doesn't deserve the publicity - have those 2,400 people supposedly complaining to the BBC got too much time on their hands) appear in the Mail today:
More...
Race doll row hits the royals: Palace apologises for golliwogs on sale in shop amid growing anger over Thatcher sacking
Furious Carol Thatcher accuses BBC of vendetta against her after leaking of golliwog 'joke'
Lest we forget: The obscenities of the BBC stars who WEREN'T sacked
RICHARD KAY: The dark secret of Chequers
MAIL COMMENT: The BBC is a floundering giant with no moral sense
ANALYSIS: Daft Carol just doesn't give a damn
How the golliwog went from innocent children's hero to symbol of bitter controversy
MELANIE PHILLIPS: Controller gives a chilling insight into the totalitarian universe of the closed BBC mind
Interesting to note that Paul Dacre still hasn't been dragged through the courts despite sacking a freelance photographer acrimoniously, calling him a "fat c*nt" throughout and embarrassing him while on Mail premises. And Dacre earns a lot more than a few license fees could ever pay for.
Speaks volumes though that Thatcher is trying to deflect scorn from the issue onto the BBC's treatment of her mother though.
Also speaks volumes that this number of stories (for something that really doesn't deserve the publicity - have those 2,400 people supposedly complaining to the BBC got too much time on their hands) appear in the Mail today:
More...
Race doll row hits the royals: Palace apologises for golliwogs on sale in shop amid growing anger over Thatcher sacking
Furious Carol Thatcher accuses BBC of vendetta against her after leaking of golliwog 'joke'
Lest we forget: The obscenities of the BBC stars who WEREN'T sacked
RICHARD KAY: The dark secret of Chequers
MAIL COMMENT: The BBC is a floundering giant with no moral sense
ANALYSIS: Daft Carol just doesn't give a damn
How the golliwog went from innocent children's hero to symbol of bitter controversy
MELANIE PHILLIPS: Controller gives a chilling insight into the totalitarian universe of the closed BBC mind
Interesting to note that Paul Dacre still hasn't been dragged through the courts despite sacking a freelance photographer acrimoniously, calling him a "fat c*nt" throughout and embarrassing him while on Mail premises. And Dacre earns a lot more than a few license fees could ever pay for.
SH
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
Hymagumba posted:
Showbizguru posted:
I wonder if the people ringing up in support of Carol Thatcher are - like me - infuriated at the BBC's pathetic double standards over her and Mr Ross.
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
JA
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
Personal insults put aside (which I notice you didn't do - thanks, Jonathan) 2,400/66,000,000? Less than 1%. The circulation of the Mail is probably around 2,000,000? So not even 3% of the Mail's readers have complained.
Out of touch? Surely employing Carol Thatcher was their first step towards being out of touch. The woman may not be vindictive but she's clearly careless and daft. I also notice the same people who are complaining about Thatcher's treatment were the ones who were defending Prince Harry saying that it's "just a shortened version of Pakistani".
I wouldn't want to turn this into a debate about the right and wrongs of racial language and immigration, but you cannot expect to use racist language in the workplace and for it to go unnoticed and unchecked. Particularly if you are a broadcaster who will be seen by millions, such as Mrs Thatcher. It would be a bad example to set for the BBC to employ someone who had used racist language like that, and then for them to preach about diversity.
Ross is different - that was a prank that went wrong, and the offended party requested that the matter was closed. Which it duly wasn't, but that's another story. The BBC made an example of Ross suspending him, but racism vs. misfired humour? I know which one I'd rather have.
Showbizguru posted:
Hymagumba posted:
Showbizguru posted:
I wonder if the people ringing up in support of Carol Thatcher are - like me - infuriated at the BBC's pathetic double standards over her and Mr Ross.
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
Personal insults put aside (which I notice you didn't do - thanks, Jonathan) 2,400/66,000,000? Less than 1%. The circulation of the Mail is probably around 2,000,000? So not even 3% of the Mail's readers have complained.
Out of touch? Surely employing Carol Thatcher was their first step towards being out of touch. The woman may not be vindictive but she's clearly careless and daft. I also notice the same people who are complaining about Thatcher's treatment were the ones who were defending Prince Harry saying that it's "just a shortened version of Pakistani".
I wouldn't want to turn this into a debate about the right and wrongs of racial language and immigration, but you cannot expect to use racist language in the workplace and for it to go unnoticed and unchecked. Particularly if you are a broadcaster who will be seen by millions, such as Mrs Thatcher. It would be a bad example to set for the BBC to employ someone who had used racist language like that, and then for them to preach about diversity.
Ross is different - that was a prank that went wrong, and the offended party requested that the matter was closed. Which it duly wasn't, but that's another story. The BBC made an example of Ross suspending him, but racism vs. misfired humour? I know which one I'd rather have.
DA
Source?
The articles that I have seen have just said she used the word 'golliwog'. There has been no context given.
jrothwell97 posted:
Thatcher made a
racist joke
, which discriminates against people based on the colour of their skin. True, it may also have been purely in jest, but it is still racist.
Source?
The articles that I have seen have just said she used the word 'golliwog'. There has been no context given.
GS
Source?
The articles that I have seen have just said she used the word 'golliwog'. There has been no context given.
BBC One Controller, Jay Hunt, appeared on Breakfast this morning, explaining that 12 people were present in the green room. Carol made reference to the tennis player resembling the golliwog on a jam jar. According to those who heard the comment, it wasn't said in a jokey way, it was delivered in a deadpan style.
Two or three people made an official complaint to the Executive Producer of the One Show, and they spent the weekend discussing the matter - including discussions with Carol. Carol wouldn't unequivocally apologise, rather she conditionally apologised for offending some, but not for what she said or why she said it.
I think its a matter for the EP of the show to decide on what should happen - but I have to say, I'm more shocked that this was leaked (with so much detail) to the press.
I would personally have taken the same action against her - as the One Show is (apparently) all about diversity and multi-cultural Britain - but I don't think its appropriate for green room chatter to be leaked, wholesale, to the press.
Gavin Scott
Founding member
davidlees posted:
jrothwell97 posted:
Thatcher made a
racist joke
, which discriminates against people based on the colour of their skin. True, it may also have been purely in jest, but it is still racist.
Source?
The articles that I have seen have just said she used the word 'golliwog'. There has been no context given.
BBC One Controller, Jay Hunt, appeared on Breakfast this morning, explaining that 12 people were present in the green room. Carol made reference to the tennis player resembling the golliwog on a jam jar. According to those who heard the comment, it wasn't said in a jokey way, it was delivered in a deadpan style.
Two or three people made an official complaint to the Executive Producer of the One Show, and they spent the weekend discussing the matter - including discussions with Carol. Carol wouldn't unequivocally apologise, rather she conditionally apologised for offending some, but not for what she said or why she said it.
I think its a matter for the EP of the show to decide on what should happen - but I have to say, I'm more shocked that this was leaked (with so much detail) to the press.
I would personally have taken the same action against her - as the One Show is (apparently) all about diversity and multi-cultural Britain - but I don't think its appropriate for green room chatter to be leaked, wholesale, to the press.
JO
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
Oddly enough most people I have spoken to think shes a tw*t and should really have known better (and that's people aged between 21-55, no I didn't do a survey it was talked about in my office)
Showbizguru posted:
Hymagumba posted:
Showbizguru posted:
I wonder if the people ringing up in support of Carol Thatcher are - like me - infuriated at the BBC's pathetic double standards over her and Mr Ross.
oh you would be in support of her wouldn't you.
My point was not about the rights or wrongs of either things Ross or Thatcher said which is why I don't bother to engage with pond life like yourself in Metropol.
It's about the large number of people who have complained to the BBC about their treatment of Thatcher compared to those who support the BBC.
It's a further example to me of how the BBC are out of touch with many of their viewers and listeners - they can;t all be rabid Daily Mail readers who are ringing up to complain.
And no-one who has seen Carol Thatcher on television could possibly say she has a vindictive - never mind racist - bone in her body.
In fact for the daughter of someone with such a controversial history she's always struck me as being reasonable level-headed and normal.
Oddly enough most people I have spoken to think shes a tw*t and should really have known better (and that's people aged between 21-55, no I didn't do a survey it was talked about in my office)