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ITV's Worst Sitcoms

(February 2010)

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DA
David
Westy2 posted:
Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


I remember reading that every episode of Blue Peter still exists thanks to Biddy Baxter requesting they be kept so if there was a limit, she must have gone over it.
:-(
A former member
Well many episode of Tony hart programmes were kept, until some prat just put them in the skip!
JO
Johnny83
Westy2 posted:
Philip Cobbold posted:
I think the producer of a programme could request that something would be saved in the archive, if they felt it deserved to be preserved. A lot of stuff has been returned to the archives that was lost through copies sold to overseas countries. And I guess some things may just have been lucky, and somehow avoided being held next to a magnet.


Sometimes that didn't work!

There is the famous instance of Barry Letts asking for all 5 episodes of 'The Daemons' to be kept as an example of Dr Who of the time, but 4 VT episodes vanished, leaving Episode 4 on it's original VT plus film prints of all episodes too albeit in B & W. (Wasn't there a 90 min compilation held too?)

I think the Series 2 Dad's Army episodes disappeared due to David Croft being on holiday!(How did the 2 early It Ain't Half Hot Mum episodes end up getting wiped?)

Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


IIRC, someone from the Doctor Who Restoration Team asked Barry Letts in regards to saving The Daemons & I think he said he didn't ask for them to be saved.

As for the randomness of episodes going missing, it seems as if there was just a "grab & destroy" policy of deleting the tapes, especially when it came to Doctor Who, for example Episodes 2,3,5-8 survive of The Invasion yet 1 & 4 went missing, you then get odd episodes like Evil Of The Daleks (Episode 2 of 7 is the only surviving one) & The Faceless Ones with only episodes 1 & 3 of 6 surviving. It seems like there was no real agenda as to which tapes were wiped.

As for Equity, their rules were that any programme recorded could only be repeated once & had to be done within three years of the original transmission, reason being that equity thought that if they were repeated more than once outside those three years then it would effect actors jobs, etc. Ironic how in this day & age the same bunch of actors are used & programmes are repeated to death (I'm looking at you Dave).

It was a combination of Equity, costs of tape & space that resulted in the junking of episodes of programmes. In Doctor Who's case it could have all been avoided, had there had been better communications between the BBC Archives in London & BBC Enterprises. IIRC Enterprise junked their copies, once the international sales opportunities had been exhausted, in the miss-belief that the BBC Archives in London had every copy safely in their vaults. Oddly enough when the BBC were clearing out Villiers House in August 1988, when they came across Episodes 1 & 4-5 of The Ice Warriors, however where Episodes 2 & 3 have gone remains a mystery.
PC
Philip Cobbold
Johnny83 posted:
Westy2 posted:
Philip Cobbold posted:
I think the producer of a programme could request that something would be saved in the archive, if they felt it deserved to be preserved. A lot of stuff has been returned to the archives that was lost through copies sold to overseas countries. And I guess some things may just have been lucky, and somehow avoided being held next to a magnet.


Sometimes that didn't work!

There is the famous instance of Barry Letts asking for all 5 episodes of 'The Daemons' to be kept as an example of Dr Who of the time, but 4 VT episodes vanished, leaving Episode 4 on it's original VT plus film prints of all episodes too albeit in B & W. (Wasn't there a 90 min compilation held too?)

I think the Series 2 Dad's Army episodes disappeared due to David Croft being on holiday!(How did the 2 early It Ain't Half Hot Mum episodes end up getting wiped?)

Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


IIRC, someone from the Doctor Who Restoration Team asked Barry Letts in regards to saving The Daemons & I think he said he didn't ask for them to be saved.

As for the randomness of episodes going missing, it seems as if there was just a "grab & destroy" policy of deleting the tapes, especially when it came to Doctor Who, for example Episodes 2,3,5-8 survive of The Invasion yet 1 & 4 went missing, you then get odd episodes like Evil Of The Daleks (Episode 2 of 7 is the only surviving one) & The Faceless Ones with only episodes 1 & 3 of 6 surviving. It seems like there was no real agenda as to which tapes were wiped.

As for Equity, their rules were that any programme recorded could only be repeated once & had to be done within three years of the original transmission, reason being that equity thought that if they were repeated more than once outside those three years then it would effect actors jobs, etc. Ironic how in this day & age the same bunch of actors are used & programmes are repeated to death (I'm looking at you Dave).

It was a combination of Equity, costs of tape & space that resulted in the junking of episodes of programmes. In Doctor Who's case it could have all been avoided, had there had been better communications between the BBC Archives in London & BBC Enterprises. IIRC Enterprise junked their copies, once the international sales opportunities had been exhausted, in the miss-belief that the BBC Archives in London had every copy safely in their vaults. Oddly enough when the BBC were clearing out Villiers House in August 1988, when they came across Episodes 1 & 4-5 of The Ice Warriors, however where Episodes 2 & 3 have gone remains a mystery.


I understood it that the majority of the original tapes of Doctor Who were wiped. What we have now is mostly from the returned overseas copies - but the overseas broadcasters didn't always keep every episode that they were sent after broadcast, hense 2 episodes of The Invasion having gone missing. I do remember reading somewhere that no black and white episode of Doctor Who survives on its original VT - everything that was kept would have been on a 16mm film copy.
TI
tightrope78
davidlees posted:
Westy2 posted:
Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


I remember reading that every episode of Blue Peter still exists thanks to Biddy Baxter requesting they be kept so if there was a limit, she must have gone over it.


Every episode since 1964 has been saved. That was the year Biddy Baxter became Editor.
JO
Johnny83
Philip Cobbold posted:
Johnny83 posted:
Westy2 posted:
Philip Cobbold posted:
I think the producer of a programme could request that something would be saved in the archive, if they felt it deserved to be preserved. A lot of stuff has been returned to the archives that was lost through copies sold to overseas countries. And I guess some things may just have been lucky, and somehow avoided being held next to a magnet.


Sometimes that didn't work!

There is the famous instance of Barry Letts asking for all 5 episodes of 'The Daemons' to be kept as an example of Dr Who of the time, but 4 VT episodes vanished, leaving Episode 4 on it's original VT plus film prints of all episodes too albeit in B & W. (Wasn't there a 90 min compilation held too?)

I think the Series 2 Dad's Army episodes disappeared due to David Croft being on holiday!(How did the 2 early It Ain't Half Hot Mum episodes end up getting wiped?)

Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


IIRC, someone from the Doctor Who Restoration Team asked Barry Letts in regards to saving The Daemons & I think he said he didn't ask for them to be saved.

As for the randomness of episodes going missing, it seems as if there was just a "grab & destroy" policy of deleting the tapes, especially when it came to Doctor Who, for example Episodes 2,3,5-8 survive of The Invasion yet 1 & 4 went missing, you then get odd episodes like Evil Of The Daleks (Episode 2 of 7 is the only surviving one) & The Faceless Ones with only episodes 1 & 3 of 6 surviving. It seems like there was no real agenda as to which tapes were wiped.

As for Equity, their rules were that any programme recorded could only be repeated once & had to be done within three years of the original transmission, reason being that equity thought that if they were repeated more than once outside those three years then it would effect actors jobs, etc. Ironic how in this day & age the same bunch of actors are used & programmes are repeated to death (I'm looking at you Dave).

It was a combination of Equity, costs of tape & space that resulted in the junking of episodes of programmes. In Doctor Who's case it could have all been avoided, had there had been better communications between the BBC Archives in London & BBC Enterprises. IIRC Enterprise junked their copies, once the international sales opportunities had been exhausted, in the miss-belief that the BBC Archives in London had every copy safely in their vaults. Oddly enough when the BBC were clearing out Villiers House in August 1988, when they came across Episodes 1 & 4-5 of The Ice Warriors, however where Episodes 2 & 3 have gone remains a mystery.


I understood it that the majority of the original tapes of Doctor Who were wiped. What we have now is mostly from the returned overseas copies - but the overseas broadcasters didn't always keep every episode that they were sent after broadcast, hense 2 episodes of The Invasion having gone missing. I do remember reading somewhere that no black and white episode of Doctor Who survives on its original VT - everything that was kept would have been on a 16mm film copy.


Oops, yep that's right, most of them are on 16mm film & have been vidfired to bring them back to "as broadcast" standard as much as possible. At one point only complete Troughton stories in the archives were The Mind Robber & The Seeds Of Death, however I'm not sure as to what format they were on though.
MA
Matt_1979
tightrope78 posted:
davidlees posted:
Westy2 posted:
Here's another question. Would a producer of the time, being aware of the various restrictions, space, cost, Equity rules etc, if he kept too much of his material, be penalised(for want of a better word) for unofficially breaking a rule? Did each producer have a set limit what could be kept in the archive of their material?


I remember reading that every episode of Blue Peter still exists thanks to Biddy Baxter requesting they be kept so if there was a limit, she must have gone over it.


Every episode since 1964 has been saved. That was the year Biddy Baxter became Editor.


I wonder if any odd episodes of Blue Peter pre 1964 have been saved? I wonder what the oldest surviving clip is? I once saw a clip of when Valerie Singleton joined (in around 1962?) and the set was totally different - it was just like a room with no backdrop or shelves and I'm not sure if the ship was even there
SW
Steve Williams
Matt_1979 posted:
I wonder if any odd episodes of Blue Peter pre 1964 have been saved? I wonder what the oldest surviving clip is? I once saw a clip of when Valerie Singleton joined (in around 1962?) and the set was totally different - it was just like a room with no backdrop or shelves and I'm not sure if the ship was even there


The ship didn't arrive for a few years. I don't believe Val's first episode exists but her audition does, as does that of Anita West, her predeccessor. In fact that's the only moving footage of West on the show that exists. I think the only footage of Leila Williams during her time on the show is her wedding, where she was given away by John Hunter Blair, the producer.

Richard Marson compiled a definitive guide to exactly what exists of BP. One reason why Biddy wanted to keep them all is because they regularly repeated old stuff on the show. But not everything in Biddy's era exists, Christopher Trace's last show was wiped, for example.
MA
Matt_1979
Thanks for this, Steve. It is interesting to hear that some editions from Biddy Baxter's era were wiped. I remember hearing on the Channel 4 documentary The Curse of Blue Peter around six years ago that Christopher Trace left on his own accord after an affair with a Norweigan woman he met on a summer expedition. Apparently he also didn't get on with John Noakes.

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