DB
Does the word TEST mean anything to you?
Yes it does, but they had a 'TEST' logo during their first 'TEST' in 2006, I was assuming that the latest one that has been popping up in press releases was the permanent logo.
2006:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ITVHighDef.png
2008:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ITVHD.png / http://www.rp-network.com/tvforum/uploads/160x120_itv_hd.jpg
jay posted:
dbl posted:
I was hoping ITV would make a nice logo for their HD channel, how wrong was I...
Does the word TEST mean anything to you?
Yes it does, but they had a 'TEST' logo during their first 'TEST' in 2006, I was assuming that the latest one that has been popping up in press releases was the permanent logo.
2006:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ITVHighDef.png
2008:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ITVHD.png / http://www.rp-network.com/tvforum/uploads/160x120_itv_hd.jpg
NG
noggin
Founding member
Done a bit more digging on ITV HD and am now watching it on my PC.
Currently showing London aerials at 1440x1088 H264 + 2.0 AC3 with a data rate of around 10.8Mbs, audio at 384kbps. The video resolution is the same as BBC HD - but the data rate is 2/3 that of BBC HD.
Like BBC HD and Luxe TV HD it is DVB-S not DVB-S2. It shares space on its Eurobird transponder with other services - including the freesat EPG if I'm not mistaken.
The H222 post earlier may be a red herring - AIUI now this is just the standard for carrying H264 video in an MPEG2 transport stream - so all HD channels on a DVB-S/S2 transponder are presumably following H222 to carry H264.
What ITV HD seems to be doing is flagging its video stream as a private data stream rather than as an H264 video stream. Thus receivers ignore this stream unless they can be forced not to.
PCs can do this very easily - as can some FTA boxes with advanced options, or the ability to edit settings on a PC.
Be interesting to see how it develops.
Currently showing London aerials at 1440x1088 H264 + 2.0 AC3 with a data rate of around 10.8Mbs, audio at 384kbps. The video resolution is the same as BBC HD - but the data rate is 2/3 that of BBC HD.
Like BBC HD and Luxe TV HD it is DVB-S not DVB-S2. It shares space on its Eurobird transponder with other services - including the freesat EPG if I'm not mistaken.
The H222 post earlier may be a red herring - AIUI now this is just the standard for carrying H264 video in an MPEG2 transport stream - so all HD channels on a DVB-S/S2 transponder are presumably following H222 to carry H264.
What ITV HD seems to be doing is flagging its video stream as a private data stream rather than as an H264 video stream. Thus receivers ignore this stream unless they can be forced not to.
PCs can do this very easily - as can some FTA boxes with advanced options, or the ability to edit settings on a PC.
Be interesting to see how it develops.
NG
The standard production and interconnect formats are square pixel based : 1280x720 or 1920x1080.
HOWEVER - many of the tape formats use some subsampling to reduce the amount of compression required, and similarly broadcasters can use non-square pixels for broadcast - with the receiver scaling prior to output. This is common in the US where 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 are common broadcast standards on satellite and cable - though OTA should be 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (as the subsampled variants are not part of the OTA broadcast standard) All domestic broadcasts use 4:2:0 chroma.
DVC Pro HD uses 960x720, 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 for various frame rates (50i gets 1440x1080 but 60i only 1280x1080 AIUI)
HDCam uses 1440x1080 with 3:1:1 rather than 4:2:2 chroma.
The BBC HD channel currently mandates HD Cam for delivery - and thus all BBC HD recorded shows can have no more than 1440x1080 resolution (i.e. non-square pixels) - and so BBC HD uses 1440x1080 for broadcast. I guess ITV HD have chosen a similar route.
HOWEVER Sky HD uses HDCam SR which is 1920x1080 4:2:2 (and capable of 4:4:4 recording - though this is really only used for high-end production where the extra chroma detail is needed in grading)
The BBC are switching to HDCam SR as their delivery format later this year - though I don't know if BBC HD will switch to 1920x1080 resolution - be nice if it did and if 1920x1080 links are used for live events it could improve the resolution of live sports and entertainment - though more detail does mean there is more to compress and can cause more compression artefacts.
(*) Also you may see 1088 rather than 1080 mentioned as the vertical resolution - this is purely because 1080 isn't divisible neatly by 16 - which is a requirement for MPEG encoding - so 8 extra lines of blanking are added in the MPEG process and then cropped afterwards.
noggin
Founding member
dbl posted:
What's the difference between 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 I thought that HD was supposed have a square pixel?
The standard production and interconnect formats are square pixel based : 1280x720 or 1920x1080.
HOWEVER - many of the tape formats use some subsampling to reduce the amount of compression required, and similarly broadcasters can use non-square pixels for broadcast - with the receiver scaling prior to output. This is common in the US where 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 are common broadcast standards on satellite and cable - though OTA should be 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (as the subsampled variants are not part of the OTA broadcast standard) All domestic broadcasts use 4:2:0 chroma.
DVC Pro HD uses 960x720, 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 for various frame rates (50i gets 1440x1080 but 60i only 1280x1080 AIUI)
HDCam uses 1440x1080 with 3:1:1 rather than 4:2:2 chroma.
The BBC HD channel currently mandates HD Cam for delivery - and thus all BBC HD recorded shows can have no more than 1440x1080 resolution (i.e. non-square pixels) - and so BBC HD uses 1440x1080 for broadcast. I guess ITV HD have chosen a similar route.
HOWEVER Sky HD uses HDCam SR which is 1920x1080 4:2:2 (and capable of 4:4:4 recording - though this is really only used for high-end production where the extra chroma detail is needed in grading)
The BBC are switching to HDCam SR as their delivery format later this year - though I don't know if BBC HD will switch to 1920x1080 resolution - be nice if it did and if 1920x1080 links are used for live events it could improve the resolution of live sports and entertainment - though more detail does mean there is more to compress and can cause more compression artefacts.
(*) Also you may see 1088 rather than 1080 mentioned as the vertical resolution - this is purely because 1080 isn't divisible neatly by 16 - which is a requirement for MPEG encoding - so 8 extra lines of blanking are added in the MPEG process and then cropped afterwards.
DB
The standard production and interconnect formats are square pixel based : 1280x720 or 1920x1080.
HOWEVER - many of the tape formats use some subsampling to reduce the amount of compression required, and similarly broadcasters can use non-square pixels for broadcast - with the receiver scaling prior to output. This is common in the US where 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 are common broadcast standards on satellite and cable - though OTA should be 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (as the subsampled variants are not part of the OTA broadcast standard) All domestic broadcasts use 4:2:0 chroma.
DVC Pro HD uses 960x720, 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 for various frame rates (50i gets 1440x1080 but 60i only 1280x1080 AIUI)
HDCam uses 1440x1080 with 3:1:1 rather than 4:2:2 chroma.
The BBC HD channel currently mandates HD Cam for delivery - and thus all BBC HD recorded shows can have no more than 1440x1080 resolution (i.e. non-square pixels) - and so BBC HD uses 1440x1080 for broadcast. I guess ITV HD have chosen a similar route.
HOWEVER Sky HD uses HDCam SR which is 1920x1080 4:2:2 (and capable of 4:4:4 recording - though this is really only used for high-end production where the extra chroma detail is needed in grading)
The BBC are switching to HDCam SR as their delivery format later this year - though I don't know if BBC HD will switch to 1920x1080 resolution - be nice if it did and if 1920x1080 links are used for live events it could improve the resolution of live sports and entertainment - though more detail does mean there is more to compress and can cause more compression artefacts.
(*) Also you may see 1088 rather than 1080 mentioned as the vertical resolution - this is purely because 1080 isn't divisible neatly by 16 - which is a requirement for MPEG encoding - so 8 extra lines of blanking are added in the MPEG process and then cropped afterwards.
Cheers for that
Pretty much explained what I noticed whilst I was in the states as well concerning OTA HD.
noggin posted:
dbl posted:
What's the difference between 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 I thought that HD was supposed have a square pixel?
The standard production and interconnect formats are square pixel based : 1280x720 or 1920x1080.
HOWEVER - many of the tape formats use some subsampling to reduce the amount of compression required, and similarly broadcasters can use non-square pixels for broadcast - with the receiver scaling prior to output. This is common in the US where 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 are common broadcast standards on satellite and cable - though OTA should be 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (as the subsampled variants are not part of the OTA broadcast standard) All domestic broadcasts use 4:2:0 chroma.
DVC Pro HD uses 960x720, 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 for various frame rates (50i gets 1440x1080 but 60i only 1280x1080 AIUI)
HDCam uses 1440x1080 with 3:1:1 rather than 4:2:2 chroma.
The BBC HD channel currently mandates HD Cam for delivery - and thus all BBC HD recorded shows can have no more than 1440x1080 resolution (i.e. non-square pixels) - and so BBC HD uses 1440x1080 for broadcast. I guess ITV HD have chosen a similar route.
HOWEVER Sky HD uses HDCam SR which is 1920x1080 4:2:2 (and capable of 4:4:4 recording - though this is really only used for high-end production where the extra chroma detail is needed in grading)
The BBC are switching to HDCam SR as their delivery format later this year - though I don't know if BBC HD will switch to 1920x1080 resolution - be nice if it did and if 1920x1080 links are used for live events it could improve the resolution of live sports and entertainment - though more detail does mean there is more to compress and can cause more compression artefacts.
(*) Also you may see 1088 rather than 1080 mentioned as the vertical resolution - this is purely because 1080 isn't divisible neatly by 16 - which is a requirement for MPEG encoding - so 8 extra lines of blanking are added in the MPEG process and then cropped afterwards.
Cheers for that
Pretty much explained what I noticed whilst I was in the states as well concerning OTA HD.
NG
Cheers for that Pretty much explained what I noticed whilst I was in the states as well concerning OTA HD.
Yep - though the US is using an early HD system OTA - MPEG2 compression not H264, and some of their distribution systems from network to affiliate are marginal, particularly for stations that multi-cast extra SD feeds alongside their HD feeds.
CBS seems to offer the best 1080i live content, with NBC 1080i sport widely panned in comparison. ABC 720p stuff is though to be usually better than Fox 720p.
ABC, CBS and NBC all distribute at a high rate (though some higher than others - NBC are marginal, and use Ku band satellite links that suffer from rain fading) to affiliates, decode and then recode. Fox went HD later (they originally had an SD widescreen digital system) - and were able to implement a system where the network encode and distribute at final broadcast rate - and the local stations have a splicer, that allows small portions of the screen area to be recoded to add a station logo, and allow a local MPEG2 encoded stream to be dropped in without sync issues.
Off-air Sky and BBC HD, as well as much European HD, is better quality than most US OTA HD - and most satellite and cable too.
noggin
Founding member
dbl posted:
Cheers for that
Pretty much explained what I noticed whilst I was in the states as well concerning OTA HD.
Yep - though the US is using an early HD system OTA - MPEG2 compression not H264, and some of their distribution systems from network to affiliate are marginal, particularly for stations that multi-cast extra SD feeds alongside their HD feeds.
CBS seems to offer the best 1080i live content, with NBC 1080i sport widely panned in comparison. ABC 720p stuff is though to be usually better than Fox 720p.
ABC, CBS and NBC all distribute at a high rate (though some higher than others - NBC are marginal, and use Ku band satellite links that suffer from rain fading) to affiliates, decode and then recode. Fox went HD later (they originally had an SD widescreen digital system) - and were able to implement a system where the network encode and distribute at final broadcast rate - and the local stations have a splicer, that allows small portions of the screen area to be recoded to add a station logo, and allow a local MPEG2 encoded stream to be dropped in without sync issues.
Off-air Sky and BBC HD, as well as much European HD, is better quality than most US OTA HD - and most satellite and cable too.
RE
Working fine on my Humax HDCI-2000 after editing the channel list.
http://www.rp-network.com/tvforum/uploads/itv_humax_2.jpg
http://www.rp-network.com/tvforum/uploads/itv_humax_2.jpg