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ITV stations that lost their franchise

JA
james-2001 Central (East) East Midlands Today
I do recall reading Thames got a bit snotty when it came to promos for Carlton's programming, and Carlton were ultimately forced in the short term to do a lot of it on LWT.


Though when you look at some of the stuff Carlton came out with in the early days, you can almost understand it...
NW
nwtv2003 Granada North West Today
Here’s an interesting watch, The Money Programme from the week after the ITV Franchise results in 1991.



In hindsight, as we’ve probably discussed on here before, TV-am did bid the right amount, more so when GMTV asked for a reduction.

Also interesting to see how much speculation there was of a European invasion and fears of quality, which largely did not happen to the extent they predict.
steve
steviegTVreturns
JA
james-2001 Central (East) East Midlands Today


In hindsight, as we’ve probably discussed on here before, TV-am did bid the right amount, more so when GMTV asked for a reduction.


It really does feel like TV-am died in vain, knowing what we know now. I don't think Thames would ever have lost their franchise if it wasn't based on who could cough up the most cash either.
WH
Whataday Founding member Wales Wales Today
We've discussed this many times, but Thames was in an unfortunate position in that it had owners who didn't really want it. Thorn-EMI would have been happy to sell their stake to Carlton in 1985. As a result of this apathy, it was always going to be in a vulnerable position and would have likely been swallowed up post 1993 (probably by Granada).

It would have been interesting to see how long TV-am would have lasted in tact, and how badly it would have been affected as The Big Breakfast hit its stride. GMTV bid more but it also had significantly reduced running costs.
AndrewPSSP, DE88 and Jonwo gave kudos
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
Yes, TV-am bid something like £16m, GMTV came along with about £33m I think it was, won the franchise and then later went to reduce this figure to a level below what TV-am bid in the first place.

Assuming all played out the same way it did, TV-am was very profitable in 1991 and very popular at the time. Its probably safe to say The Big Breakfast gained viewers because everybody turned off GMTV in the early days of 1993, when they tried to go off in a different direction and were ultimately forced to copy the TV-am model that worked well for the former company. If GMTV hadn't happened, and TV-am was still on the air, its could have put up a serious ratings fight against the Breakfast in 1993.
JB
JexedBack South East Today
Did TV-am show ads for ITV programming?


There was an arrangement, maybe forced by the ITC, for TV-am to have a peak time trail. In return TV-am would show network ITV trails in the 8am hour.
EG
eggsontoast London London
No, the LNN News Betacart was brought brand new and was kitted out with digibeta decks of some flavour or another. I think it may have gone the other way and went to Vintners Park when it was replaced.

The Betacart used in GMTV was an ex- TLS one.Didn't the BetaCart from the news studio at Vinters Park end up there too !?

The LNN Betacart used standard Betacart analogue BetaSP decks but had a component A to D converter for each before a SDI channel output switcher.
When LNN adopted Sony Newsbase server playout the Betacart ended up at Meridian New Hythe in 2001
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
No, the LNN News Betacart was brought brand new and was kitted out with digibeta decks of some flavour or another. I think it may have gone the other way and went to Vintners Park when it was replaced.

The Betacart used in GMTV was an ex- TLS one.Didn't the BetaCart from the news studio at Vinters Park end up there too !?

The LNN Betacart used standard Betacart analogue BetaSP decks but had a component A to D converter for each before a SDI channel output switcher.
When LNN adopted Sony Newsbase server playout the Betacart ended up at Meridian New Hythe in 2001


You're right, I just got the date, and direction of travel wrong! Confused
Last edited by Markymark on 27 October 2020 6:51am
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Steve in Pudsey Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Assuming all played out the same way it did, TV-am was very profitable in 1991 and very popular at the time.


In 1991, TV-am would, I think, have been selling the C4 ads during the Big Breakfast, which I guess helped their profitability?
Write that down in your copybook now.
SW
Steve Williams
Yes, TV-am bid something like £16m, GMTV came along with about £33m I think it was, won the franchise and then later went to reduce this figure to a level below what TV-am bid in the first place.

Assuming all played out the same way it did, TV-am was very profitable in 1991 and very popular at the time. Its probably safe to say The Big Breakfast gained viewers because everybody turned off GMTV in the early days of 1993, when they tried to go off in a different direction and were ultimately forced to copy the TV-am model that worked well for the former company. If GMTV hadn't happened, and TV-am was still on the air, its could have put up a serious ratings fight against the Breakfast in 1993.


I wouldn't agree with that, probably, The Big Breakfast's ratings were going up during TV-am's last few months in 1992, because every kid in Britain was watching it, and bringing their parents along too, so even if TV-am had carried on into 1993 it would have seen ratings fall quite substantially. GMTV was in pretty poor shape editorially at the start, but the main problem for them was that thousands of parents and kids who they were expecting to tune in weren't there, because they'd all gone off to The Big Breakfast. And boring old TV-am would have probably have been just as badly hit (not least as they'd then be doing all the high-faluting franchise-winning stuff they'd promised the ITC).

I don't really buy the idea, as often mentioned on this forum, that TV-am should have won, seemingly because they were popular and profitable. Bruce Gyngell would always over-exaggerate how successful TV-am was, and of course for most of the time they had a captive audience because Breakfast News and The Channel Four Daily were so boring. If you wanted something a bit lighter in the mornings, it was TV-am or nothing. The thing that had most effect on TV-am's ratings wasn't anything they did, it was Breakfast Time getting rid of the red sofas.

As for its profitability, that had no value for the audience, the ITC or the treasury. In Morning Glory they mention William Phillips reviewing TV-am in 1991 and saying it was likely to lose because it was "populist without being especially popular" and that it made more money than was "diplomatic". Certainly there was no sign of those massive profits being invested on air, even at the age of eleven I could tell its programmes had a very low budget. If the criteria for a successful franchise was that it made loads of money for its shareholders then yes, it was a success, but you would hope for higher standards than that.

Not entirely sure what TSW did cut back wise, if anything, since they didn't do that much outside of their area anyway. Anyway after a reverse takeover into some other direction the entire operation has since I believe fell into administration.


Harry Turner talks about the TSW bid in Independent Television in Britain, which was massive, saying that it was based on the idea that they would then contract absolutely everything out and sell all the assets like the studios, and you'd be left with a newsroom and a Director of Programmes and that would be enough to keep the station going. Although it sounds so little like what TSW was you wonder what the point of it all was if that was all you were left with.
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member Central (West) Midlands Today
Its all conjecture anyway. I've said before its entirely plausible had TV-am won in 1991 they were well over due for some new presentation, since they were still using in 1991 what they launched with (for the most part) in 1983. Yes they certainly got their money's worth out of the sky divers, pigeons, the battleship and the overhead shot on the Bristol Downs in the end, but I'd like to think after 1993 they stopped using all of that (maybe kept the analogue clock still, just to be different) but we'll never know so...
IN
Interceptor
Was it not the case that TV-am benefited from The Big Breakfast's early success because they sold the advertising for it?
DE88, Brekkie and james-2001 gave kudos

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